Where do they do the energy calculations? Muzzle or down range at specific yardages? Seems there could be a lot of grey area. Here in NY there are caliber limits for big game (must greater than .22 and center fire). Never heard of an energy requirement, that’s interesting. Generally not an issue here in the States. Having guided hunters a fair bit. Most are overgunned and would be better off dropping to something they could actually shoot comfortably.

Pete

Game is categorized in two main groups, big and small, and then there are a few sundivisions. For small game it is up to snowbird, then up to hare, fox and goose, then finnally roe deer. 223 will cover all. It isn’t difficult to keep track of, but before each seson I have a look through the regulations to see if anything have changed.

Let’s take moose/boar/wolf/bear for example. Smallest allowed calibre is 6.5 and lightest bullet is 9 grams/139 grains. At 100 meters/yards it needs to have atleast 2200 joule (joules?). So in theory I could use a 6.5 Grendel, but I don’t know anyone who has whipped a heavy enough bullet fast enough to pass. In practice, the laws are made for the suuuper common 6.5x55 from the old Krag. On dangerous game, you have to use an expanding projectile. I.e. not FMJ.

All common calibres are also listed with what game they are sufficient for and it is very easy to find.

Before each seson we need to pass a very quick and simple skill test. But it can be done at almost all ranges. It is to sort out the old farts who can’t see their own hand in front of them.

I think it works well enough. Never had a problem finding out antything.

Edit: «He said, later realizing that roe deer is the smallest of the big game caregory.»

Bit off your topic, but will say that I understand and agree with most of the rules/regulations that most of Europe has for hunting. While stationed in Germany, the wife and I both took the German hunting license class to earn our Jagdschein. It was a very interesting process to go through. Study and management of all species, hunting traditions, various shooting skills and tests. All this before getting Knighted a Jungjaeger (young hunter). A good amount of knowledge is needed to be learned before you are tested. Any missed questions are then again tested, but orally. Several shooting tests, including Trap, Running boar, and a couple others. It was great fun! Oh, I had perfect shooting score and was award "Honor Grad' ! I sometimes wish those classes and information requirements were part of getting a hunting license here. End of rant.

[facebookvideo][/facebookvideo]

pburns wrote:Where do they do the energy calculations? Muzzle or down range at specific yardages? Seems there could be a lot of grey area. Here in NY there are caliber limits for big game (must greater than .22 and center fire). Never heard of an energy requirement, that’s interesting. Generally not an issue here in the States. Having guided hunters a fair bit. Most are overgunned and would be better off dropping to something they could actually shoot comfortably.

Pete

There’s big game in NY?

When I was there it was mostly large dog sized deer which were most often over bred and taken with new vehicles

But going to the range you’d have fuds who though you were a monster if you didn’t use at least a 300win mag, like the one they shot 3 rounds per year with, 2 (barely) into paper plate at 50yrds and one in the general direction of what they think probably was a deer


Went out to hunt NY “deer” with my JP 223wylde (ar style), the fuds thought I was crazy as “a AR is not accurate”…despite me having plenty of steel and paper showing 1 MOA or better groups

NY is a interesting place

NineThreeKilo wrote:[facebookvideo][/facebookvideo]

pburns wrote:Where do they do the energy calculations? Muzzle or down range at specific yardages? Seems there could be a lot of grey area. Here in NY there are caliber limits for big game (must greater than .22 and center fire). Never heard of an energy requirement, that’s interesting. Generally not an issue here in the States. Having guided hunters a fair bit. Most are overgunned and would be better off dropping to something they could actually shoot comfortably.

Pete

There’s big game in NY?

When I was there it was mostly large dog sized deer which were most often over bred and taken with new vehicles

But going to the range you’d have fuds who though you were a monster if you didn’t use at least a 300win mag, like the one they shot 3 rounds per year with, 2 (barely) into paper plate at 50yrds and one in the general direction of what they think probably was a deer


Went out to hunt NY “deer” with my JP 223wylde (ar style), the fuds thought I was crazy as “a AR is not accurate”…despite me having plenty of steel and paper showing 1 MOA or better groups

NY is a interesting place

Clearly you have been hunting in the wrong spots…



Last season’s buck. Packed it out, but probably 180-190 dressed.
Sorry for the thread drift.

NineThreeKilo wrote:[facebookvideo][/facebookvideo]

pburns wrote:Where do they do the energy calculations? Muzzle or down range at specific yardages? Seems there could be a lot of grey area. Here in NY there are caliber limits for big game (must greater than .22 and center fire). Never heard of an energy requirement, that’s interesting. Generally not an issue here in the States. Having guided hunters a fair bit. Most are overgunned and would be better off dropping to something they could actually shoot comfortably.

Pete

There’s big game in NY?

When I was there it was mostly large dog sized deer which were most often over bred and taken with new vehicles

But going to the range you’d have fuds who though you were a monster if you didn’t use at least a 300win mag, like the one they shot 3 rounds per year with, 2 (barely) into paper plate at 50yrds and one in the general direction of what they think probably was a deer


Went out to hunt NY “deer” with my JP 223wylde (ar style), the fuds thought I was crazy as “a AR is not accurate”…despite me having plenty of steel and paper showing 1 MOA or better groups

NY is a interesting place

93K there is plenty of New York State to enjoy well outside of NYC, the Adirondack Mts. hide many gems.

Ended up with a Howa 1500 Varmint Hogue. Nice rifle that is let down a little by a too soft stock. I found out that what the dealer had presented me as a new rifle, was made in 2007 and had been kicking around in storage since then. No rust or anything, but old specs. 1:12 twist, and an older trigger. Had a little shouting match, and then I got a little extra gear. The total package included a Vector Continental x8 2-16x50 scope on picatinny rails, silencer and a tripod shooting rest.

It will work for roe deer, but that new gun-feeling isn't there. Toying with the idea of changing out the stock and trigger, and having it rechambered for .260 rem. Then I can go hunting reindeer with it next fall!

Look into the CZ in .223. I have one, haven’t fired it yet but I have a CZ in .22, it’s so accurate it’s almost boring. The CZ’s are very nice and reasonably priced. Iron sights or optic, your choice.

Kurt

I used to have a CZ527! Nice little rifle. Shot well, but it did feel a little crude. A lot of things has happened on only the last ten years, and CZs today seems a lot more polished than the one I had. The trigger had a little bit too much creep and the action was a little bit sticky. The angle of the bolt handle was also so that it came very very close to the scope. Nothing that could not be manded, but back then I did not hunt roedeer so I swapped it for a Sako Quad rimfire. Nor THAT was the nicest gun I have ever owned!

As I said, I did already buy a Howa 1500. For the price I did not find anything I liked better. It is technically identical to the Weatherby Vanguard S2.

Congrats, other than the dealer jacking you up a bit. Have a friend that bought a Howa last year (sorry not sure which model)in 6.5 Creedmore. He is very happy with it. We should go to the range in a couple of weeks together. If any mods that he has done stand out, I will pass along the information.

Pete

Suggestions for mods would be appreciated! The hogue stock is utilitarian and probably works very well for hunting, but on the range it is horrible. I suspect it makes the gun shoot worse. The barrel is free floating - until you put any weight on the fore end. I don't think this is the right gun to spend a fortune on, but I am considering swapping for a Boyds stock. Ironically the the Spike Camp model - wich is whats on the Weatherby I wanted to begin with... Suppose an upgrade to a Timney trigger would be in order.

Varanger wrote:.... Toying with the idea of changing out the stock and trigger, and having it rechambered for .260 rem......

I don't recall if you posted what caliber your Howa is, but you were looking for a 223 so that's what I assume it is.
Three issues with converting to 260...
1) re-chambering
2) boring & re-rifling barrel
3) modifying the magazine.
I had a Winchester model 70 short action carbine in 223 bored & rechambered for 250-3000 Ackley.
This is an "improved" wildcat, with the shoulder diameter & shoulder angle increased.
The boring & re-rifling was fine, the tricky part was properly modifying the magazine for the longer, fatter cartridge.
IMHO it might be a lot easier, cheaper, & more satisfactory for you to keep the Howa as is, or sell it,
and just buy another rifle in a bigger, more suitable caliber.
You said the 6.5x55 is "super common", I'm thinking it isn't too much below the 260 Rem in practical killing power.
Esp if you handload it, for a stronger, more modern bolt action rifle than the old Krag.

It is a .223 and you are probably right…

I have been looking into it. For the cost of a new barrel in 6,5 rechambering to .260 and getting a new bolt, I could buy a new Tikka with a cheapish scope. And then I’d have two rifles!

The second hand value of a heavily modified Howa might also be lower in % compared to using the money on a Tikka.