qmdv,

You know, there are stc's to convert those early 182's to tailwheel airplanes. Not cheap, but maybe cheaper than selling and buying.

MTV

If you're going to spend all that money, go find a Stinson 108-3 with the 0-470 and you'll keep a bunch of your money in the bank (or fuel tank) and have all the plane you want.
JH

ravi wrote:

Ravi go buy the Maule, quit procrastinating. Just buy liability insurance and that should take care of the seeing red problem

Yes, you're probably right. However, if I or my newly minted pilot wife happen to bend the plane and it's not insurred, I think the red might come back...

So why not " self insure " - put the extra money you don't spend on the 180 ( and add the amount you would be spending monthly on the addtl ins ) in a safe place and put it to work for you. If you never need it you'll have a nice pile when your flying days are done- if you do need it, it's right there- no hassles with the ins. co. I've handled a variety of situations this way and it has always worked out well for me- the biggest trick was the self discipline ( use automatic transfer monthly to savings and keep my paws out of it at maintenance/ upgrade time.
Just my two cents, no change necessary

ccurrie wrote:I had this same debate before i bought my 170B miles per gallon is verry similar but miles per cillender the O-360 kicks an O-470s ass and try to push a 180 in the hanger by your self. In my opinion 180h 170b to a 180 is the deviding line between a fun plane and a rich mans fun plane that line moves with your income though. in my experience a 180 will not disapoint until you pay your maitenance bill.

Having previously owned a 170B and now an early 180, from a maintenance standpoint, the only basic differences between the two airframes are the constant speed prop, the governer, and an oil cooler. If we're talking a 170B with an O-360 or IO-360 or 220 Franklin, those diferrences dissappear, although your point about 4 cylinders to take care of on the O-360 is well taken. From the boot cowl back, they're essentially the same airplane, with the exception of maintenance requirements on the jackscrews for the horizontal stab and the bushings/mount that holds the tailwheel stinger on.

As far as the wing goes, bladder repairs sound expensive unless you've had to pull a metal tank and tried finding someone to repair it (add in shipping to get it 1/2 way across the country and back), or tried finding a good/serviceable unit to replace a bad one.

As to the other comment(s), what's a new cowling cost for a Maule? You can buy everything new from Cessna except for the lower side skins, and if we're talking an older 180, one cowl flap (forget which side is "out of stock").

I completely rebuilt my cowling last winter, but only had to buy one new part from Cessna (the lower cowl flap support). Since I have the numbers handy, here they are:

Top cowling (spot welded assy.) = $1100
Upper nose cap = $2150
Lower nose cap = $2450
Cowl flap = $1100
Large inspection door = $900 (these are easy to re-skin / repair)
Cowl flap support = $230

Or you can buy a carbon fiber replacement cowl complete for (I think) around $7K.

Anyway, just opining on another point of view... I looked at how much $$$ I had in my existing 170 and the cost of an engine upgrade to turn it into a real airplane vs selling the 170 in stock condition (for a good price) and adding money to upgrade to the 180, and the latter was the less expensive route by far....

Why didn't I buy a Maule? I'm a sheet metal man, and don't have any experience with tube & fabric airplanes!!!

Go look at and fly both. Buy the one that puts the biggest smile on your face & fits your mission / bank account the best.

Top cowling (spot welded assy.) = $1100
Upper nose cap = $2150
Lower nose cap = $2450
Cowl flap = $1100
Large inspection door = $900 (these are easy to re-skin / repair)
Cowl flap support = $230

Ho-Le-Crap! Really?!
I don't want to get into a my plane X is better than plane Y issue here (I've got my hands full putting the super cub guys in their place )
but those prices would scare the hell out of me. Maule has a fiberglass cowl...get a crack...or a huge chunk out of it...go to the local hardware store and buy $20 worth of fiberglass and resin and spend an evening out in the shop.

I'm with ya, and I'm not arguing which airplane is better, which is why I say go look at them both, consider the attributes of each and make a decision!

If the cost of repairing a cowling down the road is a consideration for buying one type over the other, the Maule is the obvious choice to make....

Maules are good.I owned a couple.Lightly loaded showstopper.4 fat guys and gear go 185,it will steal the show.206 great if you can get by with the nosewheel,tougher than most think.To save gas with 2 people the 180 cub does the trick.I liked the m6 the best,never owned a n m4 or m7.Did own an m5 pretty good light and with power.Maules are a good bang for the buck.The fit and finish was something left to be desired back then,heard it's improved.When saying 185 i also meant a good performing 180,some do as good or better than the 185.

I have an early M-6 and love it. I tell people Maule's are cheap airplanes because they are. I mean the things are put together with pop rivets and PK screws. I think BD did that on purpose though because like Kirk said repair tools and hardware are at your local hardware store. Not that I would use unapproved parts, but a Maule's starter solenoid is made by Evinrude, the fuel transfer pumps can be found at any car parts store, The avionics master switch is a hardware store toggle switch, etc., etc. By sourceing inexpensive parts it allows Maule to sell them for much less than other manufacturers can.
And if you think about it an outboard motor probably has the best electrical parts you can get. If it will live in a saltwater environment, then it can live anywhere.
I don't know how much for a cowling, but an aileron cost $600, cheap.
One of the few advantages a Maule has is they are cheap, and yes it shows in the fit and finish, especially compared say to a Beechcraft. However there are no formed plastic parts in the interior of my Maule, so it was cheap to repace the interior with a quality interior.
The fact that they are cheaply made can be an advantage. I will admit to cheaply made, not poorly made though.

Strange thing...once I got accustomed to thinking about a 200+ hp engine I started re-looking at Maule's. 180hp CS Maule's are rare, while 230hp Maules are pretty common.

I will grant that a 230hp M-5 appears to be a lot cheaper than an equivalent 50's era Cessna 180, and for absolutely no good reason I like the Lycoming engine better. Of course, the resale on a 180 is going to be far and away better than on a Maule.

So I called AOPA for some ballpark insurance quotes. Quotes are based on an 80K hull value and on my wifes' (soon to be) 100 hours tail wheel time. Here's how it went:

Cessna 170 w. 180hp $2100 year
Cessna 180 w. 220hp $2200 year
Maule M-5 w. 230hp $3300 year
Husky A1A w. 180hp $3400 year
Liability on any of them, about $650 per year.

At least I found something more expensive to insure than a Maule...

Maybe I'm foolish to consider the $3 per day sin tax for owning a Maule. Though on the other hand, that would cover maintainance for a year when nothing significant went wrong. Or enough gas to fly over 4000 miles. Or an instrument rating over the next five years. Or...well, or a lot of things.

The sad part is $1100 per year doesn't make a pile of beans if you buy an airplane that has problems you didn't know about. Risky business this airplane buying.

a64pilot wrote:I have an early M-6 and love it. I tell people Maule's are cheap airplanes because they are. I mean the things are put together with pop rivets and PK screws. I think BD did that on purpose though because like Kirk said repair tools and hardware are at your local hardware store. Not that I would use unapproved parts, but a Maule's starter solenoid is made by Evinrude, the fuel transfer pumps can be found at any car parts store, The avionics master switch is a hardware store toggle switch, etc., etc. By sourceing inexpensive parts it allows Maule to sell them for much less than other manufacturers can.
And if you think about it an outboard motor probably has the best electrical parts you can get. If it will live in a saltwater environment, then it can live anywhere.
I don't know how much for a cowling, but an aileron cost $600, cheap.
One of the few advantages a Maule has is they are cheap, and yes it shows in the fit and finish, especially compared say to a Beechcraft. However there are no formed plastic parts in the interior of my Maule, so it was cheap to repace the interior with a quality interior.
The fact that they are cheaply made can be an advantage. I will admit to cheaply made, not poorly made though.

I did'nt mean the screws and structural fasteners.The razorback and paint was bad then.The door seal was'nt good as well.I have heard it is good now.I think stits and ceconite would have solved most of my problems.I like maules,espescially the m6.It was a darn good plane for a 5 year old plane for 35,000 floats wheels skis.Those were the days.Don't see many m6's around.I would own one again for sure.

How about this if you're looking for a classy ride

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1949-CES ... dZViewItem

Not that I'd own it or could afford fuel for it...but it's cool none the less.

For crying out loud do not bring up Cessna 195's! It took my wife a week of hard work to get me to stop thinking about them, and if I hadn't seen one take off and witnessed how much runway it ate up I'd still be dreaming of radial engines.

I don't have much ego, but a 195 is the plane I want people to see me flying! Something about it just screams cool to me, and when I figured out I could actually afford to buy one my world temporarily turned upside down. I'm almost over it so don't remind me. Thanks.

If you get that instrument rating and your wife gets some more tailwheel time, the insurance should go down for a 180 (I pay $1615 for $75K hull on my '54, have the instrument rating and about 1200TT, 900TW time).

I'm with you guys on the 195. If Avgas doesn't go to $10/gallon here, that might be my next airplane! A neighbor with a 195 says he's going to put some kind of STC'd fuel injection system on the Jake which is supposed to bring the fuel burn down to the C-185 levels without affecting performance.

BTW, tiny nit-pick, the O-470A and J powered 180s make 225hp, the
K, L, R, etc. make 230hp.

Awe come on ravi, live the dream for the rest of us that are stuck in the world of horizontally opposed duldrums!

Ok...I'll tell my wife I have to "take one for the team" and see what she says. My guess is it's going to be something like "work all the team related overtime you want".

ravi wrote:

Awe come on ravi, live the dream for the rest of us that are stuck in the world of horizontally opposed duldrums!

Ok...I'll tell my wife I have to "take one for the team" and see what she says. My guess is it's going to be something like "work all the team related overtime you want".

It's just one little bid away. You can always tell her "Oops, I accidentially clicked the Buy it Now...and it is a legally binding contract...guess I need to buy it now"

a64pilot wrote:.......
The fact that they are cheaply made can be an advantage. I will admit to cheaply made, not poorly made though.

Good way to put it. Or like I say, perfect is nice but good enough is good enough.

Eric

This has been a great thread for encouragment on my new purchase.

I have officially purchased a 53 180 today!!! Pretty fired up to say the least. Got a good price on Joe Stancils down in Placerville. It does seem heavy however for a 53, (1700) but I think I can dump weight, maybe. Anyhow, will be selling my beautiful 182 soon.

I am officially draggin my tail now!

aktahoe1 wrote:This has been a great thread for encouragment on my new purchase.

I have officially purchased a 53 180 today!!! Pretty fired up to say the least. Got a good price on Joe Stancils down in Placerville. It does seem heavy however for a 53, (1700) but I think I can dump weight, maybe. Anyhow, will be selling my beautiful 182 soon.

I am officially draggin my tail now!

Congratulations! Just remember, real taildragger pilots learn to land tail first!

I set out to buy a C180 after visiting Alaska for the first time. I fell in love with them. I had a Pacer at the time and really wanted to upgrade.

I shopped every day on Barnstormes and Trade-a-Plane. I kept seeing this C 172 that had been converted to tailwheel with a Horton STOL kit. I started thinking of how much more practical this plane was for me rather than the C 180. I bought it and so far it has satisfied me. However, I am looking forward to the day when my last youngster graduates college so I can buy a C 180 (even though it is more plane than I really need) beacause they are the best plane around.

There is a converted C175 in Barnstormers that is sweet. If i had seen this one first, I would have jumped on it.

Aktahoe, congrats on buying your 180. Interesting reading through this old thread. Since the majority of the discussion, I have moved into something different. Did the opposite of Bela (170 -> 180), I went from a 170 to a C150/150 taildragger. Good choice for me- economical, fun to fly, good performance, and didn't need the back seats & cargo capacity anyway. But I have to admit that other than my hotrod 150, C180's are pretty much my favorite airplane-- if money was no factor, I'd definitely own one.