UH-60andC-180 wrote:I just sold my 180 last week and this thread is simply depressing. I needed a larger plane to accommodate the family. I'm thinking I should have accommodated the airplane instead. "FS: 2005 boy, low time in good condition"

Brett

What did ya' get?

Brett, once you get in that 206, you'll forget all about the 180. The extra room, cabin width especially, will be much appreciated by your family. Russ

Rhyppa wrote:Brett, once you get in that 206, you'll forget all about the 180. The extra room, cabin width especially, will be much appreciated by your family. Russ

The best airplane for ME is the 180, for all the reasons listed. The best airplane for MY FAMILY would probably be a C206. As the kids get larger and the amount of stuffs increases, the 206 is the winner.

A side note for those with future family planning: No we don't cart around the ton of kid crap that your relatives show up with, but... When they get bigger they weigh more, take up more space (you can't put stuff in front of the seats because now their feet have grown down there!), they eat more - requiring more cooler and food bag space, their clothes are bigger and take more space. Remember the pile of onsies and nappies you had for your infant that would fit into the nice travel bag? While they hopefully grow out of soiling their nappies, you will now need the same array of clothes you have for yourself including polypro, rainsuits, boots, etc. I used to take one full length, warm adult sleeping bag and shove a kid in each end. Now each kid needs their own bag and sleeping pad. Camp chairs? Forget it, you're back to using the cooler and food box or bear barrels. You need a bigger tent. Planning on doing some fishing? That's rods and tackle for everyone and probably life jackets. Fortunately, these are all good problems to have! How much of an airplane junkie am I? When we talked about a third kiddo, the main argument against it was we would need a 206! Instead of the new GPS, sometimes that money has to be spent on the deductible for a quick procedure at the urologist. Not sure how George would fit that into his accounting scheme though...

Yes, with the 3190 GW increase on a 180 you can have a useful load of 13-1400 lbs, but that will fit much nicer in a 206. When we have flown in a friends 206, the wife has REALLY noticed the increased shoulder room. The longer flaps and deeper chord ailerons give a nice solid feel in flight.

With all of the places on and off airport I have been in the past 2 years, there are around 10-15 places I would not have gone in a 206. Most of those were because of the unknown surface conditions and in a few cases, would have taken a 206 once the landing area was a known. As I did end up breaking the tailwheel on one stop, maybe I shouldn't have been there with the 180 either?? Note that the comparison assumes 180/185 and 206 aircraft with similar sneakers. A 206 with 29"s and an 8.50 up front will go way more places than a standard equipped 180/5 and vice versa.

That said, NONE of this is needed for the Idaho Backcountry which is NOT off airport. My citabria with 8.00s has been into every Idaho strip without a problem. The old '59 182 went into most of them, but the 6.00 tyres did rattle us more on the rough stuff and required more diligence with regard to gopher holes. But again, this is primarily an issue of rubber, not airframe.

George, unfortunately I think your accounting is pretty accurate, especially with your range of approaches to care and maintenance. Additional thoughts on cost accounting: A simpler airplane is cheaper to maintain. By this I mean IFR vs VFR and any other bells and whistles including skis, GPS subscriptions, dual Nav/coms, audio panels, engine monitor probes, etc. With regard specifically to the 180/5, many may not be aware that with some insurers, the later model 180s and all 185s with the six seat option can only be insured as a six seat aircraft regardless whether you put the rear bench in or not. This will take your bill up a couple hundred a year potentially.

Would I buy the 180 again? Definitely. The fun factor/curbside appeal and versatility with the ability to cram it all in when needed will keep it working for me in the long run.

Last Sunday, I managed to get three full size mountain bikes with gear and three of us in to my C180. We flew in to Tokatee in Southwestern Oregon for a day of riding some of the nicest trails on earth. Everyone was comfortable and with nearly full tanks, it didn't even seem to notice the 5700 foot afternoon DA. I miss the modest expenses of the 170, but the 180 is incredibly capable for adventuring, and not being too concerned about what you can bring along.

Just missed you, we were there on Friday. You will have to fill us in on the trails.

I started a thread about 'stuff' in a 180... wish I'd seen this thread, it would have fit better here. I just put a T6 Prop for a An-1340 engine (12D40, 110", 175lb) in my 180, extended baggage, Atlee Dodge seats and Monarch tanks (4 hours of flying, tankering gas to a rather expensive place). This airplane is so cool!

gunny

Kitfox5 wrote:Just missed you, we were there on Friday. You will have to fill us in on the trails.

Sorry that we missed you. The North Umpqua River trail system is excellent! From Tokatee, we rode 18 miles of forest service road then highway to Lemolo lake, where the "Dread and Terror" section of trail begins. It is about 18 miles down to Tokatee lake, from where it was about a 6 mile ride back to the airstrip. It was a long day of riding.

We were hoping to ride more trail, but these trails are well suited to shuttling, as they follow the river and do not loop so we rode our own shuttle, so we limited it to 43 miles round. Great day though!

Gunny wrote:I started a thread about 'stuff' in a 180... wish I'd seen this thread, it would have fit better here. I just put a T6 Prop for a An-1340 engine (12D40, 110", 175lb) in my 180, extended baggage, Atlee Dodge seats and Monarch tanks (4 hours of flying, tankering gas to a rather expensive place). This airplane is so cool!

gunny

I wanted and excuse to bump this old thread, because it is a great one, and we have so many skywagoneers in the community lately.

I sold my '55 C-180 in the mid nineties. I sure regret it now but thats not the only inanimate object I've pissed away in my life. Forget all the performance and load carrying capability everyone talks about with the C-180. 180's just look cool, and we all know 90% of being cool is looking cool.

Scolopax wrote:Last Sunday, I managed to get three full size mountain bikes with gear and three of us in to my C180. We flew in to Tokatee in Southwestern Oregon for a day of riding some of the nicest trails on earth. Everyone was comfortable and with nearly full tanks, it didn't even seem to notice the 5700 foot afternoon DA. I miss the modest expenses of the 170, but the 180 is incredibly capable for adventuring, and not being too concerned about what you can bring along.

Got any photos? I'd sure like to see how that is done. I tried just one mountain bike today, and I it would not fit unless the rear seat comes out. Since the rear seat is a double, both seats must come out. I suppose the 180 has individual seats in the rear?

Mike:

First investment I made in my 59 180 was the Atlee Dodge folding seats and extended baggage.

Makes a huge difference in what "will fit".

Get rid of those double seats and get the folding seats. It takes about 30 seconds to pick up the seat and fold it up against the fuselage. You can fold one or both rear seats up. If you get a chance, highly recommend that change.

Larry

I just read this whole thread a couple nights ago. It's a good one. Doesn't help my want list at all!!!

I saw this poor old sole tied down in PA this week.


Such cool birds. Breaks my heart to see one left to rot on the ramp.

yea, that's a shame. My first 180 was very similar to that one, but luckily it stayed under a T hanger....but forgotten. That one looks pretty sad especially considering the shape of the paint ('79) paint scheme. I know it our part of the world it would be a full on mouse-house by now.

Bill

Maybe a good candidate for someone to make an unsolicited offer to buy? I checked the FAA database, looks like the owner's been keeping the registration up to date (expires 2018, so renewed this year) and the tires aren't flat, so maybe it's getting flown regularly. I kinda hate to see a good airplane parked out in the weather, but some owners seem to be OK with it even when there are hangar options.

I just finished reading this very informative thread and enjoyed it very much.
Have been looking for a nice 180 for several months now. Missed a absolute beauty a few of weeks ago.
Owned a very nice (except for the Cermichrome Jugs used on the overhaul) 58 model which I sold some 15 years ago. Really regret it now.

There is a lot of mention of operating costs here and they all valid. One thing that I have not seen anyone factor into the equation is the appreciation of these wonderful birds. Just look at the difference between a 180 and 182 of similar specs. The 180 will be up to 30% or more cost wise because of its appreciation. That is not to say it will always keep going up in price but they do outpace most all other singles. The reason is simply they are in demand. The cost of fuel is going down, slowly.

Having not been looking for a new airplane for many years but it seems to me that the market is a bit soft right now. That is based on the 180's that seem to sit for several months without being sold. True many are just overpriced considering the high engine time and overall condition. Some have sat for over 5 years and never flown. One I looked at had an engine that was last overhauled in 1967.
The one thing I try to keep in mind is the cost of finding one then making it what you want, extended fuel, Pponk gear, etc. will be far more expensive to convert than if you find one with the things you need.

Just my 2cents worth in my quest.

Tom
Cape Cod

a3holerman wrote:I just finished reading this very informative thread and enjoyed it very much.
Have been looking for a nice 180 for several months now. Missed a absolute beauty a few of weeks ago.
Owned a very nice (except for the Cermichrome Jugs used on the overhaul) 58 model which I sold some 15 years ago. Really regret it now.

Tom
Cape Cod

Hey Tom... Were are you based? Im up at PYM....

I may live poor and die poor, but I got better memories than most people I know thanks to these wonderful flying machines and the places they've taken me

amen to that

Crzyivan13 wrote:I just read this whole thread a couple nights ago. It's a good one. Doesn't help my want list at all!!!

I saw this poor old sole tied down in PA this week.


Such cool birds. Breaks my heart to see one left to rot on the ramp.

hotrod180 wrote:Maybe a good candidate for someone to make an unsolicited offer to buy? I checked the FAA database, looks like the owner's been keeping the registration up to date (expires 2018, so renewed this year) and the tires aren't flat, so maybe it's getting flown regularly. I kinda hate to see a good airplane parked out in the weather, but some owners seem to be OK with it even when there are hangar options.

Hotrod, good news! I take back all that I said about this bird being a mummy! I found out this weekend that it is owned by an A&P that still flies her. (Insert foot in mouth).

I guess its like a carpenters home never being finished, a plumber having leaking pipes, and a broke down car in the mechanics driveway....

I have to say, now that I finally have a 180, the title of this thread makes me smile every time I see it.

I like this thread.

It's too bad the 180 fleet is getting older and a good one is getting harder to find. Keep them maintained and flying folks.