OK, I am looking for some advice on the proper etiquette to handle the following situation:

Yesterday early morning I was out flying around the pattern at my home airport trying to convince myself that I really know how to land my new plane. I'd done about 5 or 6 wheel landings on runway 18 (you know, the one facing into the wind....) trying to improve my spot landing work. On the last landing I heard a radio advisory and then saw a shiny new Cessna 206 taxiing up the taxiway from the high-dollar hangers. Making another circuit I did another wheel landing of sorts right in front of the run-up area where the 206 driver was stopped facing the runway. I went around again, and while in the pattern had a short radio conversation with another experimental driver who was also in the pattern. Being able to talk to him I pretty much confirmed that my radio was actually working.

As there were other planes in the pattern and apparently prepping to depart, I was making all the appropriate radio calls detailing my location in the pattern, intentions etc just like a good boy. As I announced my turn to base I saw the pilot of the 206 (I use the term pilot here loosely, and will just refer to him as Mr. A**wipe from here on out) taxiing toward the south end (the "36" end) of the runway. I announce and make my turn from base to final just in time to see Mr. A**wipe start to taxi out, and then announce that he is "taking the active" and departing on runway 36. WTF, over?

Via radio I asked Mr. A**wipe, " are you really going to take-off on 36 with me on short final for 18?" Mr. A**wipe replied affirmative, departing on runway 36. At this point I was about 150 AGL on very short final looking at the 206 coming straight at me. Ever have one of those "ya gotta be kidding me, right?" moments? Mr A**wipe is knowingly making a downwind departure (quartering tailwind at only 10 knots, so maybe no big deal) against the established traffic pattern directly into the path of a plane on short final with other planes also in the pattern for runway 18. Well, the runway is almost 2000' long, so we probably had enough room for me to land at my end, and for him to take off over the top of me (assuming that I got my spot-landing correct for a change), so maybe there was no real conflict involved.

So, my question is this: What is the proper etiquette for addressing this situation? Would you even approach Mr A**wipe and have a chat with him? Would you go and find Mr. A**wipe and apologize to him for potentially interfering with his unfettered right to the runway and airspace at HIS airport? Or , would you consider getting the airport president to invite us both over for a couple of shared designer beers and a cordial "can't we all just get along" chat?

Hey, I'm open to suggestions here. My wife happened to call a short while after all of this occurred and I told her what had happened (she is also a pilot so she knew what I was talking about). Her only question back was 'how bad did you hurt him and how much is bail going to be?", so you may see why I am looking for some counseling on this one.

BTW- Mr A**wipe didn't come back to the airport all day. I talked to his hanger-mate and left an invitation for him to come down to my hanger in the low-rent district for a nice cordial chat when he returns, but I haven't seen him yet.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Mark

Your patience is better than mine. I would be tempted to just camp at his hanger and wait on his so we could have a little "discussion" or "attitude alignment" . But then again, being the trouble maker I can be , I might talk to some of the dudes I know at FSDO and get them to to ramp check him....that could be entertaining as I bet they could find something if they tried.

All kidding aside, what he did is dangerous as hell and appears to show that he thought he owned the world and the hell with everyone else. Glad you were paying atttention as it may have saved your life... Happened once when I was a passenger with my hunting partner back in the days when I was trying to get my ticket. My hunting partner and I were on short final at Homer, Alaska landing to the west when this idiot rolled out and took off right at us. Evasive action was necessary to avoid a mid-air. After we landed, the pilot went up into flight services and started raising hell, contacted the FAA and later told me that the dude got violated, especially since flight services saw it all. Violations are serious,but not as serious as a long pine box.

Your patience is better than mine. I would be tempted to just camp at his hanger and wait on his so we could have a little "discussion" or "attitude alignment" .

Well, he didn't come back to the airport all day, not that I was waiting or watching or anything like that. Uh, yeah, I was ah, I was at my hanger doing some maintenance, yeah, yeah, that's it, I was just hanging around doing some maintenance.........

I might talk to some of the dudes I know at FSDO and get them to to ramp check him....that could be entertaining

Well, I'm not really on a first-name basis with anyone at the FSDO, have never really seen them around our little airpark, and wouldn't want to be the one who encourages them to drop in for a visit, .......but the thought did cross my mind, especially since there were so many witnesses

All kidding aside, what he did is dangerous as hell and appears to show that he thought he owned the world and the hell with everyone else. Glad you were paying atttention as it may have saved your life...

Yep. I've always wondered how all those runway conflict incidents occurred, just never thought I'd get close to one myself. To be honest, after I got over being absolutely enraged, I realized that what happened really scared the crap out of me. Thinking back I now realize why my original CFI started me in taildraggers, demanded that I repeatedly check the windsock, look at the entire runway and check for planes on the taxiways while in the pattern.

Evasive action was necessary to avoid a mid-air.

Same here. I've been trying to remember if the old CFI ever covered hard evasive maneuvers when low, slow and close to the ground with everything hanging down. Obviously all ended well, but I know one maneuver that I will be occasionally practicing in the future. Maybe I should have considered a canyon turn, an Immelman or a hammer-head while shouting "Run-Away, Run-Away" over the radio.

In all seriousness, the night before this occurrence I was talking to Shortfielder about the hazards of making steep banking turns while at low speed and low AGL clearance with full-flaps extended. That actually popped into my head at the moment, and I held my bank and turn to only what was necessary to get out of the 206's path. I've been thinking of doing another round of aerobatic/very unusual attitude training with the local aerobatics instructor. That has moved up on my priority list.

Mark

"Prescriptive Easement", in real estate law means that someone let you get away with camping out on their property for a long time, so they eventually waived their right to tell you to get off.

You are making ahuge mistake by not settng the ground rules right now the first time. The longer he doesn't have to live with everyone else's safety in his mind, the worse it will get.

So eventually when someone sues him over it, he will say "those guys knew better than to mess with gold-plated me for five years already, so I had every right to think I could do it again yesterday when Mr. Low Rent District crashed and bent up his plane, Your Honor".

IMHO you need to act decisively, in writing. Hand deliver a letter to the airport manager, nicely but firmly asking the airport manager what his position and the City's position is on air safety at the airport, and whether YOU or anyone else is authorized by the airport to fly in a potentially unsafe manner. Let him know that you are also looking forward to being able to take off nose to nose with oncoming traffic, and you just want his permission on paper before you return the favor to Mr. Shiny 206. Remind him that fair is fair, and you'd hate to see his City and himself as the guest of honor at a discrimination lawsuit based on allowing unsafe flight maneuvers depending on how much money the aircraft is worth.

When he is just about to shit his pants after reading this, while you're standing there, take the letter back and tell the manager that all you needed was to get his attention, so that he gets Mr. Shiny 206's attention, and that you LOVE that airport, the manager, the city, and that you really do care about promoting air safety at Fallbrook Airpark. But you felt it would be a breach of protocol for you to go kick the 206 guy's ass instead of allowing the airport manager to do it.

That should solve your problem. If it doesn't, you let the airport manager know that in the interest of air safety you are going to send the letter to the city manager cc'ed to the FSDO. If that doesn't work then you send a copy of that letter to Mr. Shiny 206 and ask him whether he wants the letter to go out or not, and if you ever catch him behaving like that again the entire airport is going to be on one side, with the FAA smiling at their side, and he will be on the other.

Finally, if all that smart-ass stuff above still don't do the trick, you will have to go to the FSDO and say that there is somebody doing stupid bad judgment things and they ought to take a written report ffom you.

Just catch him one of these days and have a little chat when you're not all pissed off. Could have been some sort of misunderstanding on his or your part, didn't see you, hear your intentions clearly, relay his intentions clearly, etc. No need to involve the Feds or any other authority. Chances are he's an OK guy, might have been having a bad day, mad at the wife, fucked up, whatever. We all have them. If he wants to be a prick about it, just smile and go on about your life. Chances are you aren't going to teach him anything anyway. What comes around goes around and if you start writing letters, you'd better be living right from that day forward.

gb

I know what you mean. If you don't have a pre-planned response, human nature dictates you will just dumbfoundedly watch the scenario unfold with a dropped jaw. What is the proper etiquette?

When I was working on my certificate, a friend related this story to me. He had just called out one mile final in a Cessna 150 when a twin responded back that he was coming up fast behind him and not to be worried, the twin would stay "well clear" as he passed over the top of him and landed in front of him. My friend was a very low-time new pilot and was horrified because this shouldn't be happening on final, and the high wing of the Cessna blocked his view above and he couldn't see the plane behind him, so he couldn't take any evasive action without potentially making the problem worse. About ten seconds after the radio call, the twin roared past about 30 feet over him, and touched down mid field about the time that my friend touched down at the threshold. He couldn't believe what had just happened, and he didn't know what to do about it. So, he did nothing. Well, except complain to his friends well after the fact.

I decided that if ever confronted with a similar situation and there sufficient time, I would use "stern, authoritative, radio voice" to try to bluster the offender into submission. Maybe even quote a regulation if I remembered something appropriate. I'm not a very experienced pilot, but I've been told I sound like the chief controller on the radio. When I was a kid, my dad was a policeman. He taught me to speak on the radio using walkie-talkies. Press the button. Hold the button while you swallow (it gets the spit out of your mouth which makes you sound clearer, and also gives the signal time to get up to full strength so you don't clip your first word). Hold it the precise distance from your mouth. Speak clearly and enunciate carefully. Let go of the damned button. Of course, I also learned to imitate his authoritative tone and demeanor when the occasion called for it. It's simply AMAZING how many people will do what you tell them if you sound like a bona-fide authority.

It finally happened one day at Sandpoint, ID, a place that was frequented by fractional-owner jets for wealthy vacationers. I called out one mile final to runway 19, and seconds later saw a jet starting to taxi out onto the runway. The taxiway doesn't go all of the way to the 19 threshold, you have to taxi out onto the runway and back-taxi about a thousand feet if you want to use the full mile runway. As the nose of the jet reached the centerline, it predictably turned toward me. He finally came on the radio at that point, announcing "N 123, back-taxiing on 19, airplane on final not a factor". Apparently, the convention is to land long on 19 so that you exit at the pilot's lounge, but I was practicing spot landings at the threshold, and so I was a factor. I fired back, "NEGATIVE, 123! Cessna on final has right of way!" Each and every word was as terse and authoritative as I could make it. He hit the brakes and stopped, then responded timidly "Ummm.... I'm already on the runway... what would you like me to do.. sir?" I should have told him to taxi off into the weeds, but I instructed him, "Hold your position! I will announce when I am clear." I landed long to stay well clear (which is what he wanted me to do in the first place), but bless his fearful little heart, he never budged an inch until I announced that I was clear of the active. Of course, it doesn't work on everyone!

saw a shiny new Cessna 206 taxiing up the taxiway from the high-dollar hangers.

left an invitation for him to come down to my hanger in the low-rent district for a nice cordial chat when he returns, but I haven't seen him yet.

These things seem to happen all over the world and there is always two sides to a story...although looking at your comments can't help wondering if there are other 'Issues' involved here...

The fact that he responded to you shows that he was being arrogant and unconcerned. Just shows his lack of sense of safety on everyones part except for his own.
Some people just seem to be in their own world occasionally and their mind is not on flying. This past summer I was following another plane in the pattern landing at PKD. We heard another "pilot" on the radio calling his intentions to land. Neither of us could find this other plane. The lead plane landed and cleared the active. I was just toucjing down when all of a sudden another plane (Piper low wing..Warrior maybe) appeared in my windshield. This idiot was landing against the wind had totally ignored myself and the other planes radio communications. I nearly ran off the runway after this idiot continued to land and came right at me. He finally saw me and also swerved off the runway. I was so friggin mad I was shaking. The offending plane was from UND so I assummed it was a student pilot. He immediately took of and never allowed me the oppertunity to consul him on proper etoquette. I talked to the other pilot I had been following and he was a little upset also, but not as much as I was.
I figure in this case the pilot probably learned his lesson and hopefully will be more vigilant in the furture.
WW

Had similar experiences a couple of times. 1st was with a twin calling 5 mile final when he was actually on a right base when I was on a left base. He asked where I was and I told him to look straight out his windscreen...he went around....landed after I did but picked up his ride and got out of there before I shut down. The second was a commercial airliner, a 1900D. I was in the pattern on downwind, base, final, making my calls,watching this 1900D taxing to the runup area, no radio calls etc. I turn 1/2 mile final and this plane just turns onto 30 right in front of me. I make a short final call identifying his type of aircraft and he finally responds with "where are you?" My response was "Look out your right window" as I went around. He then responded "sorry didn't see you" as I peeled off to the east to gain altitude and called a go-round. I'm sure there were people on the ground who saw this and in the FBO by the radio. Never heard anymore about it. HC

First of all I would encourage you to NOT involve the feds for this first infraction, gb flyer's got it nailed and so do you about the fact that they don't come around much now. That'd be bad juju in my opinion.

Secondly, accurately in feet, describe "a very short final", and state with roughly 10 on the nose what your GROUNDSPEED was in a Rans.

He was definetly in the wrong and he shouldn't have done it especially since you know that he was aware of your presence. If you feel that the airport manager will keep it on the down low you may consider involving him as a mediator in the event that the guy is unreasonable.

Mostly keep your head on the swivel, pay attention and remember that if you are a recreational pilot and not trying to pay for a piece of equipment and feed your family through work flying if you have to go around, for an idiot or not, it's just another four or five minutes you'll get to enjoy your recreational fun.

Take a deep breath, realize he's a dip-shit and see how perfectly you can perform a go-around and reenter the downwind.

You said you saw the other aircraft taxi to the far end of the strip while you were on base - and you still turned final?

Think a bit about what you should have learned here. Watch out for idiots and give them room. Anticipation of an other aircrafts intentions (especially at airports were folks do a lot of pattern work) is part of aviation judgement. Aborts are as good a practice as wheel landings. Never know when you may RUN INTO another A**wipe.

GR

Hi Taildown,

I would write a short letter describing the incident as objectively as I could and include the names of any witnesses. I would then refer to that letter in my logbook entry of the flight and pass a copy to the airport manager. Your documented and the issue is now in the hands of the airport manager.

I would then climb back in my airplane and go fly.

That is why they call it an "Uncontrolled" Airport.

The alternative, a Controlled Airport, has it's own issues like fees, delays, access.....

I'll take the responsibility of looking out the window and realizing that with all those Ten's out there, us Nine's are going to have to work a little harder

I would not involve the feds nor the airport manager in this. We all do stupid things. I would definitely have a talk with the pilot and tell him how his actions affected you. It appears that he was in the wrong. If you made a mistake or did something stupid, would you not sooner have the other person talk to you first? Take a neutral person with you and split a 6 pack and talk it over. He is also part of the Brother/Sisterhood.

flyer

I think this is a serious incident.
First I would file a ASRS Report.
http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/
If you decide to write the Airport Manager then I suggest the following;
Be polite but formal.
Suggest a solution. (Maybe cite this incident in a letter to all tenants, reminding them to be vigilant,
and to follow the AIM recommendation for operating at NON-Towered Airports.)
Enclosed a copy for the ASRS Report if you send one.
Send the letter to the airport manager's offical address, using his/her Full name
and title.
Most inportantly!!!
Send it certified with return receipt requested.
Put the signature card with your logbooks for future reference.
Be careful out there, we need all pilots to return safely.

I recommended a letter to the airport manager and here is why. Assuming that Taildown's description of the event is pretty accurate, and he did confirm this pilot's intentions, then this is like catching a litterer. You can bet it wasn't the first time. So how do you manage a situation like this? You compile evidence. The correct person in this case is the airport manager. If he/she gets more letters describing issues with this person, then there is a pretty stong basis for action. Maybe the first letter will be enough. Maybe it will take more. If the airport manager, whose job is airport safety, fails to act, then they become complict. If a serious accident takes place and someone is injured or worse, the letters leave a trail of evidence. He said/she said does not. You are not just helping yourself, you are helping other pilots that may end up in a similar position.

One more item, pic1083 makes a good point about the use of ASRS. If you think it is serious enough, file one.

I find it interesting that almost everyone here has assumed arrogance on the part of the 206 driver, and emphasis has been placed repeatedly on the fact that he's from "the high rent hangar district".

I guess I would give him the benefit of the doubt initially, and as gbflyer suggested, go talk to him. In my experience, this kind of stuff is more often than not related to ignorance and poor initial instruction rather than arrogance.

Why not just go talk to the guy, assuming you've calmed down enough to have a rational discussion? It may well be that he didn't realize how close you were when he initiated the takeoff. It may well be that HE got the pee diddly squat scared out of him during the fly by as well. You'll never know till you talk to him. The point is that the lesson may already be learned on his part. Your being gentleman enough to go discuss it with him, with a professional approach to fostering safety will go a long ways toward improving the safety of everyone at that airport.

THEN if he proves himself to be an arrogant jerk during this discussion (and without provocation, I might add) you might want to consider a follow up with authorities, probably starting with the airport manager or airport association if there is one.

Do you even know this guy? It may well be that he's a pretty new pilot in a complex airplane, feeling his way along. A professional conversation will go a lot further toward safety than trying to hammer him with enforcement.

Keep your eyes open at uncontrolled airports, folks. This kind of stuff happens. See and avoid, and the willingness to YIELD the right of way when safety dictates is what keeps us alive at these places. Generally, they work pretty well, but one of these deals needs to be nipped in the bud before it turns into a pattern.

Every one of these kinds of deals I've been involved with was precipitated by failure to look, think, or just a brain fart. We all get those.

Get in touch with the guy. You never know---he might actually turn out to be a nice person, and open to feedback.

MTV

I would have gone to full power flaps up, put her 5' off the deck and call out on the radio, so yo want to play chicken you A wipe? Well do you punk?

Then as I got close I would have pulled one of those top gun canyon turns and yelled on the radio, get that spam can off my FN runway.

Then pull another top gun wing over and slip it down to the right side of the runway with my window open and my Glock 45ACP at the ready. If he was still on the runway I would empty my Glock into his engine compartment.

Then I would use my 29ers to land in the grass. Run over to his smoking shinny spam can and drag his rich ass out and do my impression of Walker Texas Ranger and Dirty Harry on him or her.

Ooorah, yes I would, uh ha, yep, sure would.

One possible further factor that I hate to even mention: Mark, are you, by stating the fact that it was "a nice new shiny 206" (rather then just "a 206"), and "high dollar hanger area", and you just an experimental, a Rans S-7 no less , given less respect in the pattern? Or was this guy an equeal opportunity screwup? Saying "experimental" in front of your N number every time when every else is Cessna this and Mooney that, can make a guy a little defensive! I've always felt, rightly or wrongly, the need to be 110% on the radio/in the pattern because of the experimental thing, kind of like a minority stating they have to not just DO the job but BETTER then just do the job to be accepted. That may be just me, and I'm OK with striving to be 110%, and I frankly can't name any specific time I was dissed by a certified airplane driver in the pattern, but I was just wondering if Mark thought that was a possibilty, maybe the other pilot had a little of that attitude (my plane cost more) AND he was a screwup! I always bend over backwards (bad analogy) to accomodate others in the pattern, because I know they are burning WAY more fuel then I am so I don't mind going around again or whatever.
The bad evil part of me would want to play chicken with him the next time and see who diverted first, just a thought, wouldn't do it......