Damn Rob, I was trying to be more discreet then that, glad some said it though!

RobBurson wrote:I would have gone to full power flaps up, put her 5' off the deck and call out on the radio, so yo want to play chicken you A wipe? Well do you punk?

Then as I got close I would have pulled one of those top gun canyon turns and yelled on the radio, get that spam can off my FN runway.

Then pull another top gun wing over and slip it down to the right side of the runway with my window open and my Glock 45ACP at the ready. If he was still on the runway I would empty my Glock into his engine compartment.

Then I would use my 29ers to land in the grass. Run over to his smoking shinny spam can and drag his rich ass out and do my impression of Walker Texas Ranger and Dirty Harry on him or her.

Ooorah, yes I would, uh ha, yep, sure would.

Wow, what a great bunch of replies. And a very interesting diversity in the "suggestions" for my counseling session. Everything from "go Rambo on him" to taking it up directly with the Feds. I have to say that there were good thoughts in every reply so far, even the ones laced with a little sarcasm (like my original post).

My reason for making the original post was that an incident/experience happened to me that really got my attention, and I thought that maybe some others in this group could share that experience vicariously. I kinda figured that is what the "lived to tell" forum is all about. You know, learning from what has happened to others.

This really did occur as I described it. Well, maybe except for the part about my wife asking about the bail (She is the one that would have kicked someones ass if it happened to her). The weather was cloudless skies, wind as described, visibility at least 50 miles (hey, thats why I pay so much to live in So Cal, right?)(actually, I was just born here and haven't figured out how to get the hell out yet). I do not know and have never met the 206 driver, have no idea how much he flies or if this is an atypical event in his world. Our airport has a lot of experimental aviation activity, and I have never sensed any general prejudice against the experimental crowd. We have a good assortment of airplane types operating here, everything from two-stroke heavy-ultralights to high-end twins. We also have a lot of training operations here as all the flight instructors in the area like to bring their students here as we are one of the few uncontrolled airports that allow touch & goes, the runway is relatively short, and the approach end of the airport has an intimidating vertical drop just before the threshold.

I do have some comments regarding some of the replies. First, while I understand the recommendations to take official action and report the incident to some authority entity, I just can't go there in this instance. The comments about us all making mistakes, if you were the offender wouldn't you want to just have a talk with the other guy rather than hearing from the feds, and don't highlight yourself to the authorities all ring true in my thoughts. I think that there are very few instances where involving authority figures ever makes anything better. Now if I talk to the guy and he comes up with an attitude, tells me experimentals should be banned anyway, says he was there first etc I may change my mind on that, but I doubt that will happen.

Next, as to whether or not the 206 guy intentionally created a conflict for whatever reason, I would like to think that is not the case. After nearly 30 years of using radios for a living in high-stress situations, I have realized that often radio operators may "hear" radio traffic, but never really process the information. I think people often "hear' what they are expecting to hear regardless of what is actually said. Several of the comments alluded to this phenomena. Now, why the guy would take off with a quartering tailwind against the prevailing traffic pattern I cannot guess. Same for why he did not process the info that the planes in the pattern were using 18. The predicted winds for the day were forecast to be from the the north, so maybe he had pre-determined that he would be using 36, never looked at the windsock, didn't "hear" the automated wind report on the advisory, or realize what he was doing.

Fortunately, I was looking around as has been drilled into my thick skull since day one of flying, I did see the 206, did both hear and process what he was saying on the radio, and was able to safely avoid a potentially bad situation. Does that make me Sky-King or the god of safety? No way! I am just another dickhead flying around in my home-made flying machine just trying to have a good time. Fortunately, a very good instructor imprinted at least a couple of good habits on me and things worked out as they should.

BTW- When I tell the story around the campfire I am definitely going to incorporate some of RobBurson's and AKGrouch's posts into my story.

Oh, and what I really did after the fact: First, I came back and landed and called it a day, sat in the shade and let the overpressure condition subside. Next, I went and asked around and found some guys who know him and asked about the 206 driver. I left a polite (really, polite, no sarcasm) message with a friend of his asking him to contact me when he has a chance. I also hunted around for a couple of witnesses, wrote down what has happened in detail, and called and talked the incident over with my trusted CFI. Plus I involved all of you guys and received some really good feedback. And Shortfielder and I really had been discussing low ground clearance, low-speed evasive or emergency maneuvers the night before this happened, and that discussion did pop into my head when I realized that I had a problem. Thanks Gary.......

Oh yeah- MTV: I am always ready and willing to yield to anyone in the pattern or to any other airplane in most any other circumstance at any time. If I am in a hurry to get somewhere I'll jump on Southwest and get there on time.

Regarding my comments about the high-rent vs low-rent hangers, I just like to stir the pot. I come by that as a matter of training. My beloved CFI refers to all GA pilots who make bone-headed moves as "Cirrus-Drivers". Probably the modern equivalent of the days when such guys were referred to as "Doctors in their Bonanzas". Whoops, probably ticked a few more folks off with that one.........

Mark

Here is another possibility. I have turned my radio volume down for what ever reason, and forgot to turn it back up. He might never have heard you? Still he should look out the window.

Wow
Bunch of self righteous pilots we have here??
You heard what he had to say, you saw what he was doing, and you were in the right? why didn't you fly on down and force him off the runway, or maybe even crash into him? You were in the right! Maybe you might have been dead but you were in the right!!

Mybe we all seem to be pretty important if we are in the right!!

If it was me I would have blown it off, Could have done a 360 on the down wind , or even flew long down wind and let him fly out, doglegged out and when he was gone do your touch and go??,Lot of options instead of getting Mad?? How much time and effort are you going to put into justifying being mad?? He screwed up period, sure glad I've never done that??
What ever you do don't involve the feds, and if you do, you damn well better make sure you Ass never never ever ever busts a Rule, cause some people shouldn't throw rocks in a glass house. I'm sure you never land in places that your not supposed to, or fly less than 500' agl ??

I've been there on both ends!! stupid and in the wrong, had pilots tell me and learned something from it! Smell the Roses and learn that not everyone does it right. He was on the radio, he didn't need to be, and if he had pulled out on the runway before you finished your turn to final, I do believe then you were breaking the rules?? Now you can nit pick and decide if you were lined up on final or still turning from base when he pulled out only you know that one?? And if you were in the right so be it.
Uncontrolled airport!!! You did good, nothing bent, and you learned that you better keep an Eagle eye out for things that don't look right!
Get over it and enjoy the airplane your flying, hell you could be dead tomorrow and what would it have got you except a ???
My $.02 GT

Along the same lines as M6RV6:

I had pretty much the exact same scenario happen to me a few years ago. In my case, a turbine crop duster pulled out from behind some hangars and without stopping started a take off roll downwind straight towards me when I was about 50 feet off the ground on short final from the other direction. I had called 10 miles out, over the field, downwind, base and final, but I guess he neither saw nor heard me.

Once he did see me (I was obviously starting my go around at this point) he let loose a puff of whatever chemical he was carrying to let me know that he wasn't going to stop his takeoff roll. Kind if struck me as "get out of my way."

Long story short, I went around, said a few choice words under my breath (my kids were in the back) and landed.

To his credit, he walked up to me and my family later while we were having lunch by the plane and apologized. I thanked him for that and mentioned politely that I hoped he'll at least scan the pattern before taking off in the future if he doesn't want to use a radio. (he said he didn't have one) I'm OK with NORDO ops, but when I've done it it's been in J3 cubs without an electrical system. I have a hard time understanding why you wouldn't have a simple comm radio in a modern turbine-powered crop duster, but that in and of itself isn't a problem for me.

Anyway, my point in all this stuff like this will happen, and when it does, we get justifiably pissed. Someone else's boneheaded mistake is causing us to assume some extra risk. But we can't let those feelings make us increase our risk even more.

I can understand the emotions behind some of the more aggressive suggestions, But in the end, being right doesn't make being dead any more fun. This is why we practice go-arounds after all.

I am surprised at all the people thinking there are some kind of rules that someone else needs to follow. Its uncontrolled folks that's it

We all get to fly where we want you have to fly where you can

There are tons of dipshits with airplanes, you broke the rules of see and avoid.........You saw him and instead of instantly using superior skills and judgment and go around or change course you ask him if he is really doing it

Its this type of slow thinking and reacting to trouble that bites you in the ass when all the chips fall in the wrong direction.

I always give landing airplanes the runway but there has been the occasion that there are more than 1 airplane in the pattern. So # 1 lands, then # 2 and you plan to take off after # 2 but # 1 announces he is on short final because he took a short cross and a shorter base turn.
If I am in the pattern with multiple airplanes it seems courteous to let the aircraft on hold short for TO know I am extending my downwind so he can take off. Especially if he waited for me once already. Proper etiquette is about communication and courtesy. We all know that landing aircraft have the right of way but taking advantage of it could lead to a situation as described. The alternative is that we fly airplanes like the rest of the world drives their cars with the middle finger salute at ready as if we are the only important person in the world.
IMHO this thread offers some value in that we should always communicate, be considerate when we are in the pattern. Just because you are making all the correct announcements doesn't put you in the right and even if you are right sometimes the better part of valor is to yield and put the ego away.
As far as the class warfare shit there is no room for allowing politics into flying the skies. As a General once told a bunch of paratroopers who were watching there fellow paratroopers being pulled along the ground by high winds with inflated parachutes. "Don't ever let me see you standby while a brother is in trouble! You shame the Airborne brotherhood and yourself!" Flying is a Brotherhood!

mr scout wrote:I am surprised at all the people thinking there are some kind of rules that someone else needs to follow. Its uncontrolled folks that's it ..........

I wouldn't go that far, even "uncontrolled" has some ground rules- just check your FAR/AIM. But pushing for the FAA (or whoever) to get involved is a bit much, unless he was purposely trying to kill ya. Blow it off--remember, everybody screws up once in a while, (believe it or not) even me! Hopefully it was an innocent screw-up-- a case of he didn't see ya & didn't understand what you were doing, and not a case of he saw ya & to hell with ya.
Best policy IMHO is to let yourself cool down, and write it off to experience. Depending on how close a call it was, that's easier said than done- but it'll be a lot easier on your blood pressure. And would you want people calling the FAA every time you screw up? I know I don't!
And you don't wanna go punch him in the nose if it means ending up in jail. What efect would an assault & battery conviction have on your life- including your medical certificate? "Live and let live" is a good motto, if you can do it.

Eric

Eric,

You missed the meaning part of someone else needs to follow

Of course there are rules such as 91.113
regardless of whether operation is conducted under IFR or VFR vigilance shall be maintained by each person as to see an avoid.

My point is do your job, fly the plane and don't whine about having to do what your trained to do. There will be dozens of times things such as this happen, It should be a reminder as to why we need to keep all our skills honed

If the 206 guy is a rouge he will get his, just make sure your better so he doesn't get you as well

And if they have to think about what to do in this situation there gonna be waaay behind when the shit gets bad

So far behind they wont feel the crash

Maybe the 206 guy was talking to center and or writing on his knee pad. I try to monitor those freq as well as unicom

But it still would read in the NTSB report that the pilots failed to see and avoid.

Call the feds for this, no-way, just pat oneself on the back for being the guy that saw and avoided. Don't waste the time sharing the fact you saved his life and his 206

I guess I am feeling ornery today. A pilot with a functioning radio fails to yield right of way to a pilot on short final. He is taking off against an established pattern with other planes in it. Thus he has failed to familiarize himself with traffic conditions or the active runway. He has obviously not checked the windsock or appraised himself of local weather conditions. He is taking off with a substantial downwind component. Those are the facts as presented.

Now if that guy was taking a check ride what do you think his chances of passing would be? If the FAA saw that happening, do you think they would hesitate to write that pilot up or even pull his certificate?

This is not a guy having a bad day. It is a guy that, at minimum, shouldn't be flying that day! Evaluating your own fitness to fly at any given time is a responsibility we all have as pilots!

You don't give him a "pass"! You don't go talk to him. He is way past having an intelligent conversation! At minimum you report him to airport management. You may be saving his life!

Skystrider
That attitude is why so many people moved west. Sure Glad you are perfect??
GT

M6RV6 wrote:Skystrider
That attitude is why so many people moved west. Sure Glad you are perfect??
GT

M6RV6, I am sorry but I really don't understand your comment. What part of the facts do you disagree with? Were you taught not to check local weather conditions? Were you taught not to become familiar with the active traffic pattern? Were you taught not to yield the ROW?

This has absolutely nothing to do with me being "perfect". That was a facetious comment.

I am truly concerned that we are brushing over a very serious situation. You want that pilot, with that judgement, flying at your field?

I don't know the guy's story. I only know the facts as they were presented. If the facts are correct, then do you think the guy should be flying?

Skystrider
Hey I'm feeling a bit onery also!
I announce and make my turn from base to final just in time to see Mr. A**wipe start to taxi out, and then announce that he is "taking the active" and departing on runway 36. WTF, over? I think when HE pulled onto the runway for take off it is His until He's clear except for the plane that is already on final?? Not the one announcing that it's turning from base to final??
quartering tailwind at only 10 knots, so maybe no big deal) I've never flown a plane that a 10 mph 1/4ing tail wind would bother me!
As someone else said he might of been talking to center and not hearing his local freq?
UNCONTROLLED FIELD!!!!! Just because 2 guys are flying one way does not make it against the rules to take off the other way? Am I wrong?
Was he Smart? NO!
Was he being courteous? NO!
WAS he breaking any rules? I don't know. I think it all depends on the timing, and as written i can't tell who was breaking the rules. FAR's? AIM? Rules or suggested use?
If I can Get out before anyone turns on final, and not miss my time off and sit on the ground for another hour getting my clearance, maybe I would push it to, and who knows maybe he was talking on the radio at the same time as the plane in the pattern was??
I just can't see all the Go Report your neighbor to the authorities IDEA!!!!!!or Crap whatever you want to call it!
GT

So breaking the fundamental rules we were taught as pilots is okay with you? And that was before he even got off the ground?

Skystrider
I'm not saying yes or no!
The whole start of this thread was(What's the proper etiquette?)
OK, I am looking for some advice on the proper etiquette to handle the following situation:
I'm just saying we heard a story?? and as facts were reported?? there are some ambiguous comments!!
Deal with it, talk to the guy if it is important and then enjoy your time in the air!!
If you want to run to the authorities and bitch, go right ahead, we live in a country that that can happen. If you do I hope you never ever come anywhere close to where I'm at!!I don't want to share the air I'm in with you!! And because we live in this Great Country, it's OK to say that.
My opinion, All it is, You can have your's, We can disagree and it's OK
Skystrider have a great day and enjoy!
What I desperately don't want to do is run into Gumps EX Wives!!!
GT

M6RV6 wrote:What I desperately don't want to do is run into Gumps EX Wives!!!
GT

Man, you gotta have a death wish to do that!

Taildown wrote:
Yesterday early morning I was out flying around the pattern at my home airport trying to convince myself that I really know how to land my new plane. I'd done about 5 or 6 wheel landings on runway 18 (you know, the one facing into the wind....) trying to improve my spot landing work. Making another circuit I did another wheel landing of sorts . I went around again, and while in the pattern had a short radio conversation with another experimental driver who was also in the pattern. Being able to talk to him I pretty much confirmed that my radio was actually working.

As there were other planes in the pattern and apparently prepping to depart, I was making all the appropriate radio calls detailing my location in the pattern, intentions etc just like a good boy. As I announced my turn to base I saw the pilot of the 206 (I use the term pilot here loosely, and will just refer to him as Mr. A**wipe from here on out) taxiing toward the south end (the "36" end) of the runway. I announce and make my turn from base to final just in time to see Mr. A**wipe start to taxi out, and then announce that he is "taking the active" and departing on runway 36. WTF, over?

Via radio I asked Mr. A**wipe, " are you really going to take-off on 36 with me on short final for 18?"

Taildown had made multiple landings and one "right in front of the run-up area where the 206 driver was stopped facing the runway" and then " went around again". He was aware of the 206 and his potential intentions. Plus there was at least one other aircraft in the pattern maybe more but no one talked to the guy in the 206 to see if he was ready for take off?
He was talking to other other airplanes in the pattern. Could it be that he stepped on the 206 radio call? He should have asked the 206 if he was ready for take off and offered to extend his downwind. How many times does the aircraft wanting to take off and burning fuel get ignored before he gets pissed off. Considerate COMMUNICATION would have defused the entire event! and apparently Taildown wasn't the only airplane in the pattern suffering from lack of consideration.

Your right Green Hornet, more communication is always better and it is certainly polite to ask a fellow if he needs a little take off room. I can't help but wonder about the take off direction opposite an established pattern though. If there were two planes in the pattern and a once around takes what, 3 - 6 minutes?, then the pilot on the ground should realize, having seen the planes coming and going and listening to the radio, that he is, perhaps, bucking the flow?

Speaking only for myself, I would have said "Oops! I am on the wrong end of the runway!", and taxied to the other end. There it would have been much safer to enter the flow, allow the other pilots to make room, and get off the ground. Deliberately (This is an assumption) taking off against the traffic with a plane on final implies some not very nice things. Even placing the plane on base it is a bad situation because you are going towards, not away, from traffic.

If it was not deliberately, then that implies some not very nice things also.

I would not involve the feds nor the airport manager in this. We all do stupid things. I would definitely have a talk with the pilot and tell him how his actions affected you. It appears that he was in the wrong. If you made a mistake or did something stupid, would you not sooner have the other person talk to you first? Take a neutral person with you and split a 6 pack and talk it over. He is also part of the Brother/Sisterhood.

flyer

Blatant disregard for safety Yes stupid but should have and could have been avoided. Deserves legal action from the Feds IMO. If you had of had your head up your ass on final you both might have been dead wrong. Him more than you for not yielding to landing traffic but both dead.

Ooops. I thought I could post a "live to tell" story, inject a little sarcasm (my baseline emotion) and maybe a little subtle humor, and get some of you thinking. If you didn't see any of that in my first or third post I apologize. Didn't mean to get anyone so spun up, or set guys at odds with one another.

The bottom line is I did see the guy when he was still on the taxiway, realized there was a potential for a problem when he headed to the opposite end of the field while still on the taxiway (I won't dare to call it the wrong end ), and continued to pay enough attention to avoid a runway conflict when he moved out onto the runway. No, I didn't kamikaze dive bomb him, brandish and fire my trusty 44 at him (45s are for wimps), burn down his hanger or lie in wait to ambush him when he returned. Maybe I wasn't clear, but the moment that he moved from the taxi-hold short line onto the runway I immediately aborted my approach. Yes, I did sarcastically ask him if he intended to take off with me on final, but that was as I was climbing out and away at the same time.

Mr. Green Hornet said: "where the 206 driver was stopped facing the runway.....and apparently Taildown wasn't the only airplane in the pattern suffering from lack of consideration."

Mr Green Hornet, the 206 was stopped doing a run-up at the mid-field run-up area, not at either departure end of the field, and he was obviously not ready to take off. I'm sarcastic, but not intentionally rude or discourteous. And at my pattern speed (think cub special) 4 or 5 planes could have taken off before I made it back around for another bounce and go. As I replied to MTV, I'm always willing to yield to anyone in the pattern or anywhere nearby at any time, so please don't jump to that conclusion. If he'd been sitting at the hold-short line I would have certainly offered to extend out to allow him to depart.

I gotta say, that based on some of the the "counseling" I've received in this thread I'm definitely not coming to you guys for advice if I start having issues with my wife. I'd have to either commit Sepuku in front of her as a way of atonement, horribly kill and mutilate her then eat her liver with fava beans to punish her for her daring to "dis" me, or report her to the Pope for failing to fulfill her vows.

But, I guess I did get some of you thinking, even if it meant getting your juices flowing a little to fast....

Hey Zane, maybe its time to toss this one into the trash bin............