Hey all,
I could use some thoughts about what to do. I have about 800 hours total, with 300 in a 150hp Pacer. It has most of the available STOL mods and 26 GYs. I concentrate my flying around back country camping in OR,WA, ID. My mission remains unchanged but I find myself drawn towards strip that push the capabilities of the Pacer to it's limits. Strips that are shorter and rougher than the Pacer can do comfortably.
I've considered several options to build or restore THE plane to fit my mission. But I'm getting to the age where you count the number of flying seasons you have left before prudence requires you to find a new hobby. I'm not sure I want to take on a big project.
That brings me to the thought of just emptying the piggy bank and buying THE plane. Which in turn begs the question, what is THE plane. So, what should I get?

Mission:
>$100K budget
>Back country camping.
>Often for a weekend or one night, but sometimes for a week.
>Usually flying alone, but sometimes with a passenger
>Average flight 150 miles one way.
>More capable than a Pacer but not much slower
>Prefer experimental because the following the rules on modifications and upgrades is getting tiresome.
>Home strip (KHIO) is paved and no grass option is available. (so GY's are a reasonable compromise)

Options:
>PA-18 King of the backcountry, slow, expensive, limited room for camping gear.
>PA-12 Excellent back country, but is it enough better than the Pacer? Faster than the 18. More room for gear.
>Bushmaster More room, not sure how it stacks up on shorter fields.
>Anything options I'm missing?

Thanks for any thoughts

…

160hp pa 18 with belly pod, 3 inch gear, scott 3200 tailwheel, 31 inch bushwheels/dessers. Borer 8243 (might want to try a ground adjustable prop when STC is done). This is the gold standard for several reasons. About the only experimental that will beat it is the BACKCOUNTRY/SQ cubs. For a decent cub certified is usually cheaper than experimental now a days. The view from the front or back of a cub is so much better than a side by side aircraft. The performance with a load is why it has been the gold standard back country plane for the past 60 years. If you are going to upgrade from a Pacer (a great back country plane by the way) don't get somewhat better, get the best!!!
DENNY

As far as hauling gear, with the extended baggage and belly pod I have taken out a old man moose camp when the 180 did not show up. 12x14 wall tent with poles, stove, cots, 2 inch sleeping pads, chairs, chainsaw, 2 gun case, ect. It was a full load but flew fine. My wife and I go on 4-5 day fly arounds and carry all the food, whine, tent, blow up queen size bed, cooler, grill, chairs, backpacks, extra clothing, extra fuel, with no problem. Wife prefers it to our first plane which was a Pa 22/20 and to our other plane a Cessna 180.
Denny

A bushmaster has a ton of room, is decently fast around 115mph, and handles short fields with ease. Not quite a supercub, but very close. They are experimental, have more fuel, and a ton of room. If you can find one of them in good shape I'd jump on it. May be hard to find at 100k, but they are out there.

Unfortunately, 100k doesn’t go very far in today’s market, I would be looking for an early Husky. You can find an A-1 or A-1A for around a hundred thousand dollars.

The early models were pretty light and very capable. Our A-1A, which we absolutely love, burns around 6 gph at 110 knots on 31 inch Bushwheels. It is a ton of fun to fly, and is back-country capable.

It has 54 gallon tanks as well, so it is a real long ranger. It wont fly quite as slowly as a PA-18, but it doesn’t fly as slowly as a PA-18. The Husky is a solid 25-35 mph faster in cruise, while still burning considerably less fuel.

The basic Husky with 31s and an MT prop leaves little else to be desired for a one or two up adventure machine IMO.

Here’s some footage of ours running around in the Idaho Backcountry:

Maule M4 or M5. Based off the pacer but with bigger engines, more room, better performance. However, nothing near the performance of an experimental super cub or similar.

Edit: Sell your pacer, buy this for less than what you sold your pacer for, spend $10k having someone put it together and add anything you want. You're $50k into a great upgrade. Spend your remaining $50k however you want.

https://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?id=1711279

Either do like DENNY recommended, or send your engine to a shop that can coax 180 hp out of an O-320, hang a good prop on it, and suck it up and put it on 31's.

The pacer is a fabulous ride for your intended mission. Specially a lighter Long wing one on bushwheels. If getting in to 'rougher' strips carries much weight at all on your wish list, nothing else listed is going to do it significantly better than what you have if 26" Goodyears are the limit. Certainly not a short coupled Maule.

Pilot... that's the mojo. If you're good in your pacer, and spend a small portion of your allocation on making your pacer achieve your goals (which are not out of line) you will achieve what you want.

Or you can spend an inordinate amount of money trying to learn a new wing, a new aircraft, just to get as good as you could do in a 'lesser performer', in hopes of someday being able to ride that horse like someone who has a couple thousand hours in one.

I am blessed to get to fly with some fantastic people. Some have some amazing machines. I'm talking $250k - $300k cubs. As stated before, I am not Bob Hoover. I would suck if I entered a STOL show... but I've owned the same cub for quite a piece... as in decades... And I enjoy flying it, so I've ran an engine or three through it.
Not a single one of those mega buck cubs goes where we don't when we're playing together. And more often than not I'm packing my better half, likely a dog, and food and goodies for the gang.

If you're just wanting a new ride, by all means, shop. But if you can make what you have sing, don't let anyone tell you you're going to do so much better in a husky, maule, or any other unfamiliar compromise. That's what they all are you know...Truth is, you'll probably do worse in either till you learn 'em, and that goes against the goal of beating back the 'flying seasons' you have left.

Take care, Rob
aka Debbie downer

If it was me looking a Scout would rank very high on the list. They tick every box for me other than aluminum skins and a round tail.

As noted by Scolopax above, your proposed budget of $100 K isnt going to get you into a Super Cub that’s in decent condition in this market.

I agree with Rob, I’d focus on making the Pacer the best it can be. Unless, of course, that Pacer is in really bad shape.

Sometimes, the glitter of “something different” distracts us from the glow of what’s already in our hangar.

MTV

I was thinking you had a tripacer. A bushmaster or PA-12 won't do considerably better then a Pacer. I agree with Rob and MTV. Get a bit more juice out of the 0-320 or throw a 0-360 on it and keep flying it.

Now A1 I was counting on you to run with and support my Scout "line of thinking".

Of course I am biased, but I say Bearhawk, you have the 4 place or the side by side Companion, both have 1000# useful and will take off shorter than they land.

I suspect it would be near impossible to find one for $100K though

Mapleflt wrote:Now A1 I was counting on you to run with and support my Scout "line of thinking".

Well I would support that, but the 100k price tag makes it very hard to find a Scout. I know of a real nice one for sale, but its Canadian and he wants 150k out of it.

A1Skinner wrote:

Mapleflt wrote:Now A1 I was counting on you to run with and support my Scout "line of thinking".

Well I would support that, but the 100k price tag makes it very hard to find a Scout. I know of a real nice one for sale, but its Canadian and he wants 150k out of it.

Well $100K usd is close, about $130K cdn north of the 49th parallel.

I just noticed a recently “sold”, well decked out Scout on Bstormer for just under $80k usd, so they are out there.

Scolopax wrote:Unfortunately, 100k doesn’t go very far in today’s market, I would be looking for an early Husky. You can find an A-1 or A-1A for around a hundred thousand dollars.

The early models were pretty light and very capable. Our A-1A, which we absolutely love, burns around 6 gph at 110 knots on 31 inch Bushwheels. It is a ton of fun to fly, and is back-country capable.

It has 54 gallon tanks as well, so it is a real long ranger. It wont fly quite as slowly as a PA-18, but it doesn’t fly as slowly as a PA-18. The Husky is a solid 25-35 mph faster in cruise, while still burning considerably less fuel.

The basic Husky with 31s and an MT prop leaves little else to be desired for a one or two up adventure machine IMO.

Here’s some footage of ours running around in the Idaho Backcountry:

I agree, Husky. Having owned or flown just about everything the Husky checks off a lot of boxes, only problem is finding one under 100k. That being said, what Rob said above is spot on in my opinion.

Very nice video! Great production.

Kurt

Gentlemen

I very much appreciate all you thoughtful replies. Lots to think about here.
I've considered the O-360 or hopped up O-320 option for the Pacer and I may do that.
I wish there was a route to taller landing gear, or larger tires that would last longer on pavement. Perhaps, as someone mentioned I should just suck it up and get Bushwheels. The Pacer is a good machine and with taller gear I could touch down much slower.
My Pacer is cosmetically rough, but I've been through every inch of it many times, so I know it's in good, safe, flying shape. It will need some fabric work in the next few years, but that can be done incrementally without loosing much flying time.

The Husky option seems least likely to fall in my budget as they seem to stay above $200k most of the time.
I've considered the Maule with it's extra power, but my Pacer's wing has about the same area and it's lighter, so it's hard to believe the Maule gets in much slower. I understand it will get out shorter.
A Scout is an interesting idea I had not considered. I'll take a look at those.

In the end maybe I'll do a Bushmaster. I know the Pacer inside and out. I have all the pieces laying around already. Maybe if I throw a bit of money at it, like prebuilt wings and a new engine, I can get it finished in a reasonable time. I plan to retire soon so I'll have more time to put in to it.

Marc

I think you might be surprised what your money will get you in a Scout. They are an great value for the dollar in my estimation. If aluminum, side by side seat and a round tail hadn't been features I wanted it would have been my "go to" airplane.

At the risk of great bodily harm, I'll go so far as to say a Scout is by far the best bang for your buck in a tube & fabric, tandem seating airplane.
Have a look at the one that was recent sold on Bstormer, for an indication of the value and features you might gain.

I'd venture to say you could "generate" a large portion of the purchase price through the sale of your Pacer. They are a sought after make & model in many circles.

My pops lost 5 years of flying while we built our Bearhawk and looking back I feel really bad about it. If it were me and I liked the Pacer then I’d do some mods and keep flying it. But there’s no way I’d trade a flying plane for a project at that phase of life.

A Supercub could be a lot of fun, or a Husky, so I’d probably keep my eye out for one while continuing to enjoy the Pacer.

So far every plane most every plane mentioned has the same story ("not really cub performance). If you look around 100 grand will by a nice flying cub. Don't go looking for a pretty one. As you know with your pacer pretty paint don't really help it fly better. If you are going to spend time and money upgrading Wing/wheels/engine. It is going to cost the same for a pacer as it does for a cub!!! Put the money into a plane that will give you the best return for the money and that is a cub! The 31 inch Dresser tire on Grove rims has the STC for a cub and weigh the same as a set of 31 in bush wheels. Perfect for tar operations. If you can't run that get the heavy tread Bush Wheel 1/3 more rubber for 200 bucks per tire. Most all the planes mentioned are faster but what is 90% of you flying going to be longe cross country or full tanks out and back? Start flying at 500ft and lower when every possible it makes the flight a lot more fun. When all the other planes get bent in the middle of a strip they always call around asking for a cub to pick them up. If a cub gets bent they ask for another cub and a lot better pilot to come out.
DENNY