Authorities conducted an extensive search for Wilson, whose flight plan took him directly over Yosemite,

OMG How could this happen, he had a flight plan???

OregonMaule wrote:Authorities conducted an extensive search for Wilson, whose flight plan took him directly over Yosemite,

OMG How could this happen, he had a flight plan???

I'm sure no slight was intended . . . a fellow aviator perished, I'd not go with facetious remarks on this one.

bumper

'66 M20F? '66 F model. Something is amiss in FAA records I think. Or maybe I'm wrong. '67F I would believe. I don't think there were any '66F models.

In any case closure for the family. God's speed.

EB

FAA records reflect the date that the model was granted its airworthiness certificate, not necessarily the model year as stated by the manufacturer. My 63 P172D (according to Cessna) is a 1962 according to the FAA, because its airworthiness certificate was granted in October 1962, for instance.

Cary

I've been following this story. They say the plane was found largely intact. Wonder what that really means? I wish they would have gone into more detail. Was his body still in the plane? Outside the plane? Guess we'll have to wait a couple of years for the NTSB report to come out. Or a couple months for the autopsy results.

I've been following this also over on the Beech site. He was a friend of several over there. Tragic, but good to have some closure.

Really Oregon? Instead of being an idiot why don't you show a little compassion for this aviator and his family. I have a question? Oregon have you ever lost anyone in an airplane crash? Had a family member suffer due to this scenario? I doubt it. I came here with an open mind and listened and in fact changed my thought process after speaking with you. It is precisely your attitude that is in fact contributing to the problem. Sorry that rubbed me the wrong way, the death of my daughter and in fact any aviator is not a joking topic. Lets hope nothing happens like that to you ever my friend and if it does rest assured I will not result to juvenile jokes, no I would try to help in anyway I can, you should grow up my friend.

ShysDad: I am 55 and Have had my share of sadness in my life. It didn't involve my child or an airplane. I can't imagine that pain. But I don't care how you loose a loved one it sucks! The whole subject of flight plans has been at issue for years. My commit was not aimed at anyone, just a general opinion I don't think flight plans are the answer.

Does anyone know the wx at the time of the crash. I'll bet wx was a factor???

If you choose to fly with no SPOT or 406PLB what do you think will happen?

I believe in choice and liberty to determine my own fate.

I don't know the fella in the plane, probably a good guy. A SPOT or 406PLB may or may not have made a difference.

He chose to go without.

As for me being blunt and to the point. That is my style. Call me an AH you won't be the first.

G'Day

ShysDad,
I have the impression that Rob was making fun of the news media, because, they repeatedly make it sound like the reason airplanes aren't found is because the pilot was irresponsible and did not file a flight plan.
Flight plan or not, airplanes can be very hard to find-even if it is within a known small area that they can concentrate on. Anyhow, I took this as a dig at the media, so I think some folks are reading into Robs post considerably more than he intended.....?

My read on it...
lc


Comment: posted simultaneously with Robs above post.

I think a combination of better beacons and spot and flight tracking are the answer to the issue. I support your decision and stance of freedom and the right to choose your fate, this is vital. However when children and passengers are included the fate is no longer just yours. Originally I came here with the thought that flight plans should be law, you guys changed that stance. Locator Beacons, PLBs, Spot Tracking and flight following are better options. I would not call you an AH for stating your opinion. It came across inflammatory and for the record the flight plan he followed allowed the searchers to have a basic idea where to look. It is a volatile issue that is for sure, I try to approach it openly and honestly, that comment just rubbed me the wrong way. I am not an Aviator as of yet, but I have done a tremendous amount of research on the craft so I am no longer unaware, I have made the effort to understand the craft and the mindsets of pilots. I will not allow all I am trying to accomplish to be made fun of, after all it may be any of you that benefit from this cause. I do agree protecting the freedoms of aviators is of the highest priority, as is bringing crash victims home. The key is search and RESCUE not recovery.

It's all in the perception right? I perceived the sarcasm that Rob was conveying in the Irony that a flight plan will save everything. It didn't, I remember the thread on this last winter the weather was real bad they called off the search. I tried a search for the thread but am unable to find it.

ShysDad,

Not an aviator as of yet. I like that. You ever find yourself in the Austin area and I'll gladly take you up in the Stearman and you'll get a grin on your face that you can't wash off.

Mostly agree with you on the trip essentials. I'm headed from Texas to British Columbia next week, picking up my two nephews in Idaho. On board is a inReach, a PLB, and a Satellite Phone. And of course a survival kit and first aid kit. I'll be showing them where everything is located, as well as how to use it.

Well Shysdad. If you want to learn about the mindset of some pilots here's sample of my mind. It's a little harsh, and oh yeah if you want to get into flying be prepared to see some of the people you get to know die. Unfortunately it's a part of living.

It seems when people die in accidents they become virtuous, untouchable and

unquestionable. The body and their life becomes a matter of extreme respect that is

above judgement That is a damned shame because for the rest of us, the living we could

probably learn a lot from their follies. A disrespectful word yes, but well suited

in many cases involving weather related aircraft accidents. It has been well proven

time a time again that pilots are their own worst enemies when it come to

earning pre-entry into the after life, another word that is also suitable is

stupidity. 70 years ago it would be called brave and skillful, but that was a much

different era.

I have a very graphic imagination and at times I imagine myself in serious

predicaments, similar to the ones we have heard about recently. I think of my self

stumbling around in poor viability and crashing into a side of a mountain, one

second the environment is warm and dry with the drone of the engine. The next Im

regaining consciousness surrounded by a broken aircraft and covered in blood. I have

broken bones and can barely move. It is getting dark and it's snowing. Then I

envision 2 sub scenarios
.
One is neglecting to bring a spot or beacon , No blanket or sleeping bag. no water,

no first aid kit, Not even a Jacket. Why would I need all that stupid stuff. It was

75 deg at the airport and a short trip through the mountains. Then I realize I am

the one that is stupid. not fathoming or respecting the inherent risks of aviation

travel. Stupid and selfish to my loved ones and believe me, I and probably most of

you would spend of our last dying hours berating ourselves on just how F**king stupid

we are
.
The second scenario of coarse is I am prepared. I learned to keep the spot in my

pocket, So it can be reached in case of limited mobility. Not in the flight bag stowed in

the back. I have water, some bandages a blanket and perhaps some pain killers. Help

may not come in time and I'm going to die, I may have made a dumb decision to carry on in worsening weather but hell, at least I gave myself some

options and a fighting chance.

Aviation is a serious business and commitment, filled with a lot of wannabes and fair weather around the patch flyers with weak stomachs for

reality, No, God no, don't talk like that, sort of thing. As a pilot I read accident

reports and watch videos of plane crashes to try to learn and enhance judgement so

hopefully my stupid pea brain can stay out of trouble. I have been called morbid for doing that, whatever! Like the cliche says."learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself"

Im all for Judging my peers as I should be judged by them If I do something

seriously neglectful, If Am ever killed in scenario 1, They are welcome to make

one of those safety posters featuring my stupidity. A picture of a wrecked

aircraft and a sobbing family and the caption would read: Don't be stupid like this

guy. BE PREPARED!! Graphic enough to shake people and make them think and hopefully

save a few lives. That would make it a little worthwhile dying for.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:31 pmRe: A MISSING AIRPLANE BETWEEN FILLMORE UT AND GILLETTE WY
ShysDad wrote:
There were a lot of different things that occurred in this particular crash. I have spoken with the lead investigator Tom Little of the NTSB and inexperience was a factor. I have more details if anyone wants to know about them. In an earlier post there was an email sent. If I knew where to find the email, I could confirm or deny what was posted in it. I am curious about the ELT beacon that was on the plane. I was told that it never went off at all, the NTSB could not say for certain if it was even on or not. Is the ELT something that has to be actually turned on or does it power up automatically when the plane is powered up or is it a separate pre-flight task to turn it on. For those that are curious, I am the father of the 9 year old and the ex-husband of Trista. Just trying to understand.


Once again.... I am very sorry for your loss........

I have left out the name of the person who sent me this.........

Since you are new here I will repost this. It was sent to me after two failed CAP searches. One included a 36 NM TFR to keep out all "other" searchers... I am sure there are decent CAP chapters but IMHO they all need to be treated as suspect until prover otherwise..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/a ... 2?start=40
[b]Hi Ben!


I'm an old fogey who believes in lessons learned rather than blaming others. Please ask the other folks to keep this private for now. We don't need anyone stirring up these agencies right now or upsetting the family.


We LOVE the many dedicated folks who comprise SAR teams! But in the case of this crash, the system was horribly broken.


These are some of the things that apparently went wrong with the notifications & procedures. They are listed chronologically whenever possible. Note: The aircraft apparently crashed shortly after noon on Sunday, 11.2 miles East of the Fillmore Airport (FOM).


1) There was an unconfirmed report in Sevier County on Sunday of smoke on the ridge between Millard County and Sevier County. Because there was no report of an aircraft emergency, it is unknown what procedures were implemented.
2) Although the FAA reportedly issued an ALNOT Report at 1148, Monday -- lots of counties and agencies were NOT notified for several days.
3) Utah CAP (usually Chaplain Boyd) regularly briefed the extended family on the search area & number of planes assigned. At the time, we did not know that they kept refusing other SAR resources (Pilots For Christ - Wyoming and other volunteers). It is still unclear who they did & did not notify. It is still unclear if they truly had the authority for all command decisions and had the right to refuse competent SAR resources. There seems to be conflicting guidance on this and even the counties didn't seem to know who was in charge.
4) Tuesday evening, I was flabbergasted that the Millard County Sheriff's Office dispatcher told me that they were NOT aware of any missing plane even though they were located in Fillmore -- where the plane was last seen. Chaplain Boyd had briefed me that he was in touch with their acting Sheriff and he knew about it -- but the dispatcher claimed no knowledge of it and wasn't interested in the information.
5) In subsequent days, family & friends were contacting lots of county sheriff's offices to verify that they had been notified. We are still gathering times, dates, names, etc., but several counties including adjoining counties told us on Wednesday & even Thursday that they had received NO notifications on a missing plane in the area. Some counties said that they were quite upset because they had highly trained & equipped SAR resources that would gladly have begun searching days earlier.
6) Wednesday, we were assured that several counties including Millard (Fillmore) had lots of ground SAR teams searching the local area. We were contacted on the Facebook page "Prayers for Trista, Shy & Matt" by private folks in that area who had volunteered their services with horses, ATVs & sleds, etc., but they told us that they were told by the county that they were NOT needed because they already had LOTS of search teams. Later, we received unconfirmed reports that SAR teams were not really deployed in that area after all. We really don't know!
7) When family members were contacting the governors & senators of UT & WY requesting National Guard resources such as Black Hawks and ground search teams, they were repeatedly told that it was impractical because the search area was 2400 sq. miles. This was an invalid reason for rejecting those resources, because there was NO evidence that they ever got out of the valley from the Fillmore Airport. Shortly after takeoff, there was one single ping received near Mt. Pleasant -- with NO further contact. On Wednesday, a group of us including off duty pilots and an air traffic controller went over every scrap of evidence or absence there of. We went through EVERY conceivable scenario and our group agreed unanimously that there was NO evidence they ever got out of the valley area. On Wednesday night, I contacted CAP Chaplain Boyd and he verbally agreed with our findings. I insisted that because a severe winter storm was forecast, the governors & National Guard must be contacted immediately to mobilize all appropriate resources for Thursday morning. Black Hawk helicopters would be absolutely critical in searching the local ridges, canyons & ledges before they would be buried by snow! One Utah National Guard Black Hawk made one sortie late Thursday afternoon and reportedly were joined by 2 more on Friday. We are unaware of any National Guard ground search resources being deployed.
Because of our connections with the USAF, Wing Commanders or Command Posts at several bases in the region were contacted. Significant resources such as photo reconnaissance aircraft, rescue helicopters and even unmanned drones were reportedly available but had to be officially requested through channels. We had a friend who works with classified satellite imagery that said they could have helped, but we couldn't get anyone in authority to make the request. That imagery and/or unmanned drones could have focused around the Fillmore area, the mountains just north and east of there, and a few lakes in the area.
9) Idaho Search & Rescue was contacted by family members and they indicated they could provide technical expertise or deploy teams & equipment if officially requested through channels. That option was not chosen.


End Result: The missing plane was found by a Utah DPS helicopter at approx. 8:00 am, Sunday, Dec. 2nd, 2012 -- 11.2 miles east of the Fillmore, UT Airport. The pilot, 2 passengers and 2 dogs did not survive.


The Utah State Medical Examiner in SLC states that the pilot died almost immediately, but his 34 year old girlfriend probably lived 3-4 days. Both of her lower legs were broken, but she eventually died from exposure. He also stated that her 9 year old daughter probably lived for 4-5 days before lying down next to her mother and dying of exposure. Grrrrr! She was relatively uninjured and her tracks were all over the hillside apparently trying to get help. The NTSB Lead Investigator stated a cell phone was found showing that the young girl had been trying to send text messages to her Daddy for help. Grrrr!


I'm sure that there are plenty of officials that feel terrible about this tragedy. But I highly doubt that any one of them would have any idea how horribly the system failed us all in this case. Some of these counties spend a lot of time, effort, and money preparing for SAR missions. We cheapen their dedicated efforts if we don't find the resolve to overcome these critical problems. In honor of our young friends -- we MUST do [/b]better and save lives in the future!!!

Stol wrote:Guys, just to refresh your memory. Shysdad is the father of the little girl that died because of the CAP fuck up down in Fillmore Utah...... Go easy on him......

I have gotten ALOT of crap for posting the comments on the thread concerning that topic.... I tried to do a search to post a link to it but this new site will not let me search for some reason....

Here's the 8 page thread: http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/question-for-pilots-12629

She's quite the read, but a good discussion overall.

After closely reading the a-p article on the wreck It is clear a hiker stumbled on the wrecked plane.
OregonMaule just pointed out the obvious about the flight plan not working on that occasion. We should try to maybe relax and not attack with petty name calling. Yes I have lost close friends in airplane crashes. My three children are all involved in aviation and I pray every day for their safety. I agree with exodus ,try and learn from others. I still fly over Yosemite in the winter but I now have real time weather and more caution than in the past. Cheers

ShysDad,
Glad to see you are still with us. Hang in there with us. Sometimes we can be a little brash. It's probably just the nature of pilots. It takes confidence to do what we do and sometimes that comes across as being a little cocky.

Because of some of your posts I did buy a SPOT. I've used it several times for local flights and on two trips to Idaho's backcountry. It has worked great and has given my wife and friends a way to "fly along" with me. It has provided "peace of mind" for my wife to know where I am and to get those "I'm OK, Just checking in" messages.

The terrain where this plane was found averaged 10,000' or more. That doesn't leave a lot of margin trying to sneak by with marginal weather. One can talk about flight plans & SPOT beacons, the real answer is find an alternate course of action. That means a different route or delaying/cancelling the flight.

Yes, it's crystal clear in hindsight, there were also red flags present prior to the flight.

The terrain where this plane was found averaged 10,000' or more. That doesn't leave a lot of margin trying to sneak by with marginal weather. One can talk about flight plans & SPOT beacons, the real answer is find an alternate course of action. That means a different route or delaying/cancelling the flight.

As aviators we hold the fate of ourselves-and others-in our hands (decisions)......
I believe ShysDad will confirm that this is a "power" that the results of will reverberate intensely LONG into the future and DEEPLY into other people's lives.....

Lets NOT be stupid out there, folks......

lc