sj wrote:Being one of the folks who witnessed this accident, and knowing those involved, I was compelled to read what was being said here about it. I am impressed with the respect and maturity of this discussion.

I was complimenting triple "Z" the other day on what a great community he started here. I'm sure there is a perception - and maybe it is better for both Zane and I to reinforce it - that we are in some form of competition. The fact is we exchange thoughts on "situations" fairly regularly and except for that one pudding wrestling match largely staged for the media, we get along OK

There is a wealth of information and experience among all of you, and I apprecate the way you are sharing and discussing it in a constructive manner.

Thanks!

sj

Always nice when our community gets a compliment from the owner of supercub.org. Thanks Steve.

Battson wrote:But then again, I know other guys who land places I wouldn't dare. So there's a spectrum of people and an equal range of 'margins'. I hope I am somewhere in the middle.

And I hope that through proper planning and study I can always arrive where I'm going in a manner that puts me smack dab in the middle of my capabilities under the current conditions!

I am sometimes gobsmacked by the "spectrum" of situations and conditions for which people consider themselves capable. When the proper skillset, mindset and equipment come together, it can be very impressive. But, it's a 3-legged stool we're talking about. If any one of those are missing or improperly assessed, the results will usually speak for themselves.

CapnMike wrote:But, it's a 3-legged stool we're talking about. If any one of those are missing or improperly assessed, the results will usually speak for themselves.

I like that analogy. Well said.

Pilots are a lot like teenagers.
I was much smarter and my dad was pretty dumb when I was 16.
Kinda funny how the older I got the dumber I got and the smarter my dad got.

Can't tell you how many times I went into a flying situation thinking no problem and walking away (luckily) scratching my head saying sum bitch, that wasn't good.
The more experience you have the more you recognize how much you didn't know before.
That's a good thing about flying to me. It's the only thing I don't get tired of because there's always something to learn. There's always someplace you can improve. It's humbling and rewarding no matter how many hours you have.
The other thing I've learned is to NEVER judge a situation unless your in it.
I once was the guy that would say " that was dumb, I'd never do that". HA! Watch your ass after that comes out.
I gave that game up long ago.
I'll leave that part to someone more qualified than me. Suggestions or advise? You bet. Ridicule. I'm done.
They may be dumb or boneheaded or then again they may have just not screwed up enough yet or on that particular thing. I don't wanna make the call. Everyone has a different overwhelment threshold. If that's a word.
I do enjoy accident analysis and breakdowns like this tho. It helps everyone from having to learn it ALL the hard way.
This site can be a 2 edged sword.
People see things they may not of tried or thought of and want to try them
And the wealth of knowledge can be invaluable.
Dont be an idiot. Heed the don't try this at home advise if it's out of your element.
Don't let pride get you or someone else hurt. And for goodness sake don't blame someone else when it all goes south.

Sorry for the drift.

This thread is a very beneficial read.

It's interesting to me how this ties in with Ryan Lunde's article posted recently giving firsthand narrative to the husky accident. Every Time I've walked away from a flying situation thinking I was lucky, I could trace it to not looking far enough ahead of my present position. I wasn't thinking through what could happen next and what I could or couldn't do about it. Similar to what Ryan described, I'm sure that I was going to make the landing. I heard this described recently about another accident as well. The pilot described simply not seeing what hazards were past the landing, because there wasn't a possibility of not landing.

How do we teach folks from the start to see through plan A to the hazards, possible outcomes, and traps that are just past it? If the most experienced folks on this site can let it happen to them, how do less experienced guys like me get through the proverbial formative years without hurting ourselves? Just my thoughts as I process the tremendous experience those on this site allow us newbs in on.

Brett

Judgement has to do with making choices, the decision part of Boyd's Observe, Orient, Decide, Act Loop. And that loop is open ended; that is we may observe or orient or decide something else while deciding on the first, etc. or even after we have decided to act another way.

The OODA Loop is helped greatly, in landing, if we are practiced, current, and proficient in touching down slowly and softly in the beginning of the landing zone. Going around is just one of a number of possible decisions, not a fix it. Often, especially in tight situations, it is the very most dangerous of the choices.

There is a sort of final decision I have kept in mind throughout the years and used more than once. I am going to destroy this airplane to save myself. I am going to crash and I am going to do it well. I am going to land there knowing from that point on it will be considered a crash. I am not going to die in this airplane because I am going to stay in control long enough to crash well.

Fatalities usually result from panic. Crashes, not so much.

The guy who flew in with me, in the 80 hp Cappela homebuilt, was I believe the youngest PIC there. Early to mid 20's, I'll have to ask him, 120 hrs in that bird, that he built, plus whatever 172/trainer time. He did great, so great that at some point he may need to be advised of the phenomenon of a newbie thinking they have it all figured out. I do know I took off without him, as he was chatting up some young ladies, ( )the plan being we'd catch up later. That didn't happen, and he ended up flying outa there in the mid afternoon, after he got through chatting I guess. I wasn't his babysitter by any means, and I had my own problems getting back into my strip mid day, he landed back at a real airport. I will be seeing him soon and we can compare notes on his first time as PIC into JC.