lesuther wrote:I'll may only stop for a visit at Taylor for a bit.

How did you get permission to land there??? I've tried several times and I've always been to no way; Taylor is a research facility and I'm not welcome there unless scheduled to some research is pretty much what they told me.

All area within 100 feet of a runway in Idaho is closed to shooting. I discovered this at Chamberlain a couple years ago when a Forest service employee informed of the law and the steep fine/loss of hunting license. I never bothered to check if the law really existed...no one is usually around to issue the citation.

emflys wrote:So I've always wanted to camp at Mile Hi for a night, get up at sunrise, have some coffee and a granola bar and go flying. That's probably not a good idea? Or?

The way I interpreted the IAA letter, that sounds like a perfect reason to go to mile hi. If I was capable of landing there I'd join you, pretty sweet spot there.

whee wrote:How did you get permission to land there???

I spent some years working out of there on a critter project. I usually bring someone in from the UofI to go fishing with if I go. I prefer Soldier Bar and fishing upstream a few miles to go visit. It has some of the best fishing on the lower section of Big Creek if you can deal with the snakes, and it's fun to go see the bighorns bang heads in the fall. There is also a ton of historical stuff by Soldier Bar (handaxes/arrow heads, petrographs, teepee circles, bits and pieces from the army campaign, an old Travelair fuselage several miles to the south, old gov't trap lines probably gone now with the fires, etc). It is also a bit of a shortcut to get to the fishing up north. Nobody gets more than 200 yards from the strip anymore unless they are hunting, and even then it is pretty thin past Dave Lewis.

emflys wrote:So I've always wanted to camp at Mile Hi for a night, get up at sunrise, have some coffee and a granola bar and go flying. That's probably not a good idea? Or?

It's a great idea.

Been lurking at this blog for a couple days. Now that I've taken the time to log in for piperpainter's pole I've just got to say something over here.
After attending our (BCP'rs) fly-in for the first time last year, I have been dreaming about landing on Mile Hi for almost a year now. Since then I have taken the wheel pants off my plane, stimulated the economy by buying bigger tires, and I'm going to land at Mile Hi at least once this year. Hope this doesn't offend anybody!
Christopher Columbus didn't sail all the way over hear just to be told look but don't touch. He left all the granola crunchers of his time behind so he and [u][b]all [b][u] others could experience and enjoy life and their new found land.
Looking forward to seeing all you good people in JC soon.
Tom

All area within 100 feet of a runway in Idaho is closed to shooting.

What happens if you have 150 foot bullets?

Is that for 'real'..... in the back country?
In other words, is that an actual written (somewhere) LAW?

lc

lesuther wrote:

OregonMaule wrote: But it was said the companies hauling hunters and fishermen in are good because they know how to get in and out.

I said that.

The point was that the taxis do things differently for economic and impact reasons- they don't fly in formation and circle for 20 minutes overhead Cabin Creek before landing, they dial down the prop to save gas, and they they don't take off and then come back for a low approach for the camera. A few outlier rec fliers do.

The taxi pilots have less of an impact than the small minority of rec traffic folks left that still need reminding.

Your suggestions were fine. As far as 'sensitive non-aviation users', I think having a dozen BCP'ers descend on Soldier Bar would be for some like the Rainbow Family having a naked flash mob outside the John Bircher Society's headquarters. It might be legal, but the locals won't like it, and the Rainbow Family wouldn't be as welcome the next time around.

Good points.

emflys wrote:I'm feeling uncertain as to what I should do after reading through all of these. I'm feeling sad, guilty, angry....a little confused.

I guess I will simply interpret the IAA letter as best I can, heeding its specific recommendations (multiple landings, large groups, occasional use). I get up to Idaho once a year, so for me personally, that's not an issue. But as it's during the big fly in, it is. I think then we just defer to the key phrase (which is what many have said) "Moderation is key". I think most can figure that out, and hopefully just employ a little more care. Some Mile Hi is better than no Mile Hi.

I think I'll leave out the video this year.

So I've always wanted to camp at Mile Hi for a night, get up at sunrise, have some coffee and a granola bar and go flying. That's probably not a good idea? Or?

I think camping at Mile High is great and much preferred to the flash mob in motocross Highlanders, Rans, Avids, ohhh and maybe a Maule

Hey, the last time the Rans, Highlander, avid, Supercub, and yes, Maule, were all there together, we stayed most of the day. Discussing field repair techniques.

Oh, and a red Stinny!

wow, all interesting comments for sure. let me give u a local idaho guys version. as a family we've been in and out of the frank and selway for a lot of years. what i've found talking to my non-aviation friends and customers, they too love it back there. they really dont mind the air travel all that much, and see it as a good way to gain somewhat easier access to their favorite places. there are those that are bothered by our travel also, and i've had some of that too. they want peace and quiet whenever possible and a week or 3 by themselves. point taken. since we simply wont win with a few of these groups, what i think works best is to be as pro-active as possible. quite often i offer and take a few friends in to drop them off for a hike in the frank they would otherwise not be able to pull off, due to distance and time constraints. let them buy a little fuel and make sure that they get in safely and have some fun in the process...doing the jc flyinn and donating some stuff so that the cash raised can go to our causes has to help. being a good ambassador for our kind means landing at all the strips we deem do-able maybe once per trip. one thing to bring up about mile-high, is to land ON the designated strip...i dont think it should be sliced and diced as we see fit...dont mean to rile up anybody, but by all means be respectful...

I like to say we are all owners back there, and we are...it is everybodys so lets treat it with great care. as my friends say, it is truly a "hidden treasure"...! see you all in a couple of weeks, hope u win a spot if u need one...!

Littlecub wrote:

All area within 100 feet of a runway in Idaho is closed to shooting.

What happens if you have 150 foot bullets?

Is that for 'real'..... in the back country?
In other words, is that an actual written (somewhere) LAW?

As I mentioned I never bothered to check to see if it was actually written anywhere. Chamberlain is in the real backcountry.

lesuther wrote:

OregonMaule wrote: But it was said the companies hauling hunters and fishermen in are good because they know how to get in and out.

I said that.

The point was that the taxis do things differently for economic and impact reasons- they don't fly in formation and circle for 20 minutes overhead Cabin Creek before landing, they dial down the prop to save gas, and they they don't take off and then come back for a low approach for the camera. A few outlier rec fliers do.

The taxi pilots have less of an impact than the small minority of rec traffic folks left that still need reminding.

Your suggestions were fine. As far as 'sensitive non-aviation users', I think having a dozen BCP'ers descend on Soldier Bar would be for some like the Rainbow Family having a naked flash mob outside the John Bircher Society's headquarters. It might be legal, but the locals won't like it, and the Rainbow Family wouldn't be as welcome the next time around.

The idea that commercial operators have less impact and are superior aviators is almost laughable. Most are scraping out a meager living by pimping out the backcountry to flatland tourists. Time is money for them so they zip into an area loaded at gross and climb out much the same. Some even do low passes, buzz wild herds, and fly well below 2000ft AGL over parks to give the paying customers a thrill. I'm sure there are some that have a genuine concern for noise and pollution but I think they are not in the majority. They aren't the ones organizing work/repair parties. It is groups like BCP and scorg. The only positive effect the outfitters have is to put revenue into the local economies.
The Rainbow family is never welcome anywhere... ever. As far as the eco-nazis are concerned we ARE the rainbow family and the Manson family rolled into one. They will never welcome us anywhere at any time no matter how nice we play. Anyone who thinks that we can appease groups like the Sierra club has not spent any quality time in public forums with them.
I have had a dog in this fight for over 30 years and I can tell you from lots of personal first hand experience that they do not care about sound mitigation, decreased numbers of users, financial impact, or compromise. The eco groups have one agenda and only one agenda. They want to put an end to all motorized use of any kind. Period.
Think about it.. they are the same people who refuse to let a helicopter land in the wilderness to save a human life. They value "mother earth" above humanity. That is a mental illness.

S-12Flyer wrote:Think about it.. they are the same people who refuse to let a helicopter land in the wilderness to save a human life. They value "mother earth" above humanity. That is a mental illness.

Amen.

UtahMaule wrote:

S-12Flyer wrote:Think about it.. they are the same people who refuse to let a helicopter land in the wilderness to save a human life. They value "mother earth" above humanity. That is a mental illness.

Amen.

I'm with this team. Amen!

G'Day

OregonMaule wrote:

UtahMaule wrote:

S-12Flyer wrote:Think about it.. they are the same people who refuse to let a helicopter land in the wilderness to save a human life. They value "mother earth" above humanity. That is a mental illness.

Amen.

I'm with this team. Amen!

G'Day

AMEN x 4

S-12Flyer wrote:The idea that commercial operators have less impact and are superior aviators is almost laughable. Most are scraping out a meager living by pimping out the backcountry to flatland tourists. Time is money for them so they zip into an area loaded at gross and climb out much the same. Some even do low passes, buzz wild herds, and fly well below 2000ft AGL over parks to give the paying customers a thrill. I'm sure there are some that have a genuine concern for noise and pollution but I think they are not in the majority. They aren't the ones organizing work/repair parties. It is groups like BCP and scorg. The only positive effect the outfitters have is to put revenue into the local economies.
The Rainbow family is never welcome anywhere... ever. As far as the eco-nazis are concerned we ARE the rainbow family and the Manson family rolled into one. They will never welcome us anywhere at any time no matter how nice we play. Anyone who thinks that we can appease groups like the Sierra club has not spent any quality time in public forums with them.
I have had a dog in this fight for over 30 years and I can tell you from lots of personal first hand experience that they do not care about sound mitigation, decreased numbers of users, financial impact, or compromise. The eco groups have one agenda and only one agenda. They want to put an end to all motorized use of any kind. Period.
Think about it.. they are the same people who refuse to let a helicopter land in the wilderness to save a human life. They value "mother earth" above humanity. That is a mental illness.

Like if you agree

"like"

S-12Flyer wrote:Think about it.. they are the same people who refuse to let a helicopter land in the wilderness to save a human life. They value "mother earth" above humanity. That is a mental illness.

AMEN X-5

S-12Flyer wrote:The idea that commercial operators have less impact and are superior aviators is almost laughable. Most are scraping out a meager living by pimping out the backcountry to flatland tourists. Time is money for them so they zip into an area loaded at gross and climb out much the same. Some even do low passes, buzz wild herds, and fly well below 2000ft AGL over parks to give the paying customers a thrill. I'm sure there are some that have a genuine concern for noise and pollution but I think they are not in the majority. They aren't the ones organizing work/repair parties. It is groups like BCP and scorg. The only positive effect the outfitters have is to put revenue into the local economies.
The Rainbow family is never welcome anywhere... ever. As far as the eco-nazis are concerned we ARE the rainbow family and the Manson family rolled into one. They will never welcome us anywhere at any time no matter how nice we play. Anyone who thinks that we can appease groups like the Sierra club has not spent any quality time in public forums with them.
I have had a dog in this fight for over 30 years and I can tell you from lots of personal first hand experience that they do not care about sound mitigation, decreased numbers of users, financial impact, or compromise. The eco groups have one agenda and only one agenda. They want to put an end to all motorized use of any kind. Period.
Think about it.. they are the same people who refuse to let a helicopter land in the wilderness to save a human life. They value "mother earth" above humanity. That is a mental illness.

Correct again.

Hey, you must have snuck into our last land use meeting in Moab

http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Eyellowpinecm/

One of the most popular...still looks very busy

Have counted 3 planes since last friday (I am sure there were a few more but). I wonder how many actually visited the 4 under fire...Yep, they are getting way to much use...