8GCBC wrote:The 8GCBC is I believe a very good SAR aircraft,

Tandem seating, 70 gals, 180HP CS, slow, 2600GW (restricted), 1450LBS empty, simple to fly does not stall unless really jerked on, plenty of headroom, and inexpensive compared to Cessna. Skis, floats, Bushwheels easy to swap.

And they call it a Scout too! Not a coincidence.

I believe my 7GCBC to be great too. Problem is, CASARA, the SAR unit that is trying to set up locally, won't allow 2 place aircraft. Being a military outfit, they require one pilot, one navigator, and one spotter=3 seats minimum. And also means only 2/6 eyes actually spotting. Craziness in my books.

A1Skinner wrote:

8GCBC wrote:The 8GCBC is I believe a very good SAR aircraft,

Tandem seating, 70 gals, 180HP CS, slow, 2600GW (restricted), 1450LBS empty, simple to fly does not stall unless really jerked on, plenty of headroom, and inexpensive compared to Cessna. Skis, floats, Bushwheels easy to swap.

And they call it a Scout too! Not a coincidence.

I believe my 7GCBC to be great too. Problem is, CASARA, the SAR unit that is trying to set up locally, won't allow 2 place aircraft. Being a military outfit, they require one pilot, one navigator, and one spotter=3 seats minimum. And also means only 2/6 eyes actually spotting. Craziness in my books.

And therein lays the problem..... The CAP is an arm of the military and the whole thought process of them is flawed.....

Every one of us can probably go out right now and conduct a safe and efficient search but because of "their" rules it is next to impossible to conform to their regs......


My plane is 4 place, 400 HP , basically stall proof and will NOT meet their specs because it is an "EXPERIMENTAL".... It had every ability to safely search and save lives but because it is not a certified aircraft it has to sit in the hangar instead of helping out a fellow aviator, or their family... That is what I call a wasted resource...IMHO.

Ben.

Stol wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:

8GCBC wrote:The 8GCBC is I believe a very good SAR aircraft,

Tandem seating, 70 gals, 180HP CS, slow, 2600GW (restricted), 1450LBS empty, simple to fly does not stall unless really jerked on, plenty of headroom, and inexpensive compared to Cessna. Skis, floats, Bushwheels easy to swap.

And they call it a Scout too! Not a coincidence.

I believe my 7GCBC to be great too. Problem is, CASARA, the SAR unit that is trying to set up locally, won't allow 2 place aircraft. Being a military outfit, they require one pilot, one navigator, and one spotter=3 seats minimum. And also means only 2/6 eyes actually spotting. Craziness in my books.

And therein lays the problem..... The CAP is an arm of the military and the whole thought process of them is flawed.....

Every one of us can probably go out right now and conduct a safe and efficient search but because of "their" rules it is next to impossible to conform to their regs......


My plane is 4 place, 400 HP , basically stall proof and will NOT meet their specs because it is an "EXPERIMENTAL".... It had every ability to safely search and save lives but because it is not a certified aircraft it has to sit in the hangar instead of helping out a fellow aviator, or their family... That is what I call a wasted resource...IMHO.

Ben.

Major politics! I worked for DOD for a long time! I agree, with everything you guys are saying, logic does not always work. But, I keep trying anyway!

CAP is "cub scouts" for middle aged - elderly men (Nerd Fraternity). I'm sure some squadrons are different but that's my opinion after working closely with several of them (not by choice). Bottom line, you are responsible for your own well being, relying on the government to save you is a recipe for disaster, prepare carefuly.

Bender wrote:CAP is "cub scouts" for middle aged - elderly men (Nerd Fraternity). I'm sure some squadrons are different but that's my opinion after working closely with several of them (not by choice). Bottom line, you are responsible for your own well being, relying on the government to save you is a recipe for disaster, prepare carefuly.

Agreed. I study people who are self reliant. An ounce of prevention...

Lin and Larry Pardey sailed around the world twice in homemade wood boats with no electronics, no engine and a sexton. They have over 250,000 sailing miles together and cruised the wrong way around Cape Horn (East to West). Never been rescued.

Everybody should read their books.

Bender wrote:CAP is "cub scouts" for middle aged - elderly men (Nerd Fraternity). I'm sure some squadrons are different but that's my opinion after working closely with several of them (not by choice). Bottom line, you are responsible for your own well being, relying on the government to save you is a recipe for disaster, prepare carefuly.

That's about the most perfect description I've seen! And perfectly describes the one here in OGD! Knowing the leader of the nerd/geriatric gang here, I pray I never have them looking for me.

Lookee here, you snot-nosed kids. I don't mind your calling the CAP any names you want, but let's don't malign TOFs! We ancient "geriatric" folks could show you a thing or two. Why, I've been flying longer than some of you whipper-snappers have been alive! Sheesh!

CAP is "cub scouts" for middle aged - elderly men

Careful there. Plus what Cary said And I DID fly S&R with CAP in a land far ago and long, long away when they still had Supercubs....

Thanks. cubscout

Being a TOF isn't the issue. I'd have you and lots others come look for me any day. I hope to be one someday too. It's that certain combination of people that are drawn to the CAP that I have no faith in...at least in my experience. YMMV

Grassstrippilot wrote: It's that certain combination of people that are drawn to the CAP that I have no faith in...at least in my experience. YMMV

Much like most of government. Just look at their latest and greatest website.

tim

I've been a member of the mountain rescue team and county SAR locally for about 10 years. In that time I've been a part of some great missions where everything went like clockwork and some clusterf@#cks. I've had in informal agreement with the team that should it look like my plane could be an asset in the search I would suddenly appear without permission with an observer from the team on board to help look. This has always been accepted with a nod and a wink. I have not ever used my plane in this manner, I usually end up as a ground pounder, but someday.

I would encourage folks to get involved and vollunteer with their local SAR teams. They do usually welcome pilots. I have done many flights with our team leaders and local air medical pilots to scout out landing zones and ensure that when a new helicopter pilot comes to town and we might use them in a mission that he learns our terrain, the mountains, the drainages, the likely spots where we will have missions, and our favorite helo lz's. I also like to donate scenic flights that our team then auctions off during our yearly pancake breakfast. Other pilots get involved around here as well and I have to say that in our local community I would be surprised if we ever got locked out of a search if it was possible we could be help.

On another subject, I will be rolling out a 2 day Backcountry Aviation Medicine course in June, and an integral part of the course will be a summary of the relevant communications devices and how they can help make flights safer and searches shorter. We owe it to our families to have the best available technology; especially when a SPOT costs less than one tank of avgas.

cubscout wrote:

CAP is "cub scouts" for middle aged - elderly men

Careful there. Plus what Cary said And I DID fly S&R with CAP in a land far ago and long, long away when they still had Supercubs....

Thanks. cubscout

"A long time ago in a galaxy far far away"........you were close

Ear witness to the crash.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home3/5723 ... s.html.csp

Barnstormer wrote:Ear witness to the crash.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home3/5723 ... s.html.csp

I don't know much, but when a guy is there telling you what he heard on a shitty day outside and you have some one there arguing with him about how far sound travels on a clear day?? Then to convince him that they already had a blackhawk there so he must be mistaken!!!!!!
Just about proves everything everyone has been talking about!!
Closest thing to an eye witness and all he is doing is trying to help??? Why doubt everything he has to say, You can hear him getting pissed as he is trying to tell them what he heard and where he heard it and what he thought it meant?
Unbelievable!!

Yea you can tell by his body language and his comments that he doesn't want to listen to anything the witness is saying.

There has to be a way to put a stop to this.

Barnstormer wrote:Ear witness to the crash.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home3/5723 ... s.html.csp

Sounds like the ear witness was at the Sibnite Mine area. They need to take the ear witness back to Stibnite and ask him to stand where he heard the notice and point in the direction he heard the noise from. I would think he can do that by pointing on the map, too. I dunno.

Being that last radar contact was south if JC and the ear witness heard the wreckage crash, I'm wondering if the wreckage is up the canyon west or northwest of Sibnite?

Maybe something to think more about for now on. If your in the backcountry and hear an odd sound. At least make a note of what you heard, location and direction the sound came from.

yup damn good ideas, Pat. or if not anything else, how about saying something the day of and not a week later...?!

jomac wrote:yup damn good ideas, Pat. or if not anything else, how about saying something the day of and not a week later...?!

I got thinking later today about the "ear witness". I wonder if he was working at the mine there in Stibnite or hunting. In any case, I would think there is some sort of communication line set up for the mine workers there to call for help if need be. It's a global company operating that mine, so I would think they have some sort of life line set up. Or maybe the operation is shut down for the winter and the "ear witness" was up there checking on things and took a while to get out and then found out there was a plane reported missing near where he heard the odd noise? I dunno.

But very sad thing is and just like that article mentioned. It's pretty much a recovery effort now. Even the family has come to terms with that prospect (according to the Salt Lake news article). With all the snow that's been being dumped on in this whole area, no dought the wreckage is more than likely covered with snow. Sad deal!

yup u r right pat...some folks to this day are really not connected as we all are, and i guess i take it more serious than some here in our little state...and thoughts as to just what i have with me in my bird to be able to set out a bit of bad wx if need be...even at this age and hours, i am always thinking about just where i will stuff a pretty good 182 if the fan quits, and what we will all do...as in back-country snowmobiling, we have a very good plan as to our equipment and people involved...my condolences to those left behind from the beech accident...its gotta be tough. i do know that some of the best back-country pilots in the mccall/challis area were asked to help on this one, and they are quite frustrated as well not finding the beech...quite a few hours flown with 0 results in -20 degrees in birds with not much heat blowing...they did their best im sure.

Here is a pretty good news article, and I am hoping that with the improving weather they are able to get back out there. It sounds like the family is quite involved in this one and probably has a lot of weight being that it appears his uncle is a professional pilot and may have some contacts.

http://www.kutv.com/news/top-stories/st ... 8551.shtml

I noticed the TFR was lifted the other night. Is it still lifted? I am wondering if we shouldn't find out who the witness is and work with him to ensure that he is getting the word out there and maybe have some of our pilots take him up and help search??