I found the site and the news story. You would have thought they would have publicized this more. The site is Tomnod...and it appears the images are from DigitalGlobe.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=27930590

Here is a link to the search.

http://new.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/idsar2013

Facebook page too. Latest imagery isn't that great.

https://www.facebook.com/Tomnod

I agree Cory, the images aren't that good.

DCO-65 wrote:

Re: One missing near Johnson Crk/Yellow Pine
Is there any such thing as a large metal detector to hang from a helicopter?

Isn't that kind of how the Navy's P-3's go looking for subs?

It's called "Magnetic Anomaly Detection". Since it detects disturbances to the earths magnetic field, ie: ferrous metals, and very little of most airplanes is made from ferrous metals, I doubt it would be very effective in locating a downed airplane.

Submarines and mineable deposits are pretty huge, compared to an airplanes landing gear......

And, by the way, P-3 s can't find submarines for squat using just MAD. Actually, they generally can't find submarines.

MTV

I don't know, even at the best of conditions, if anything could be spotted on the ground ticking along at that speed and altitude. In terrain like that what's needed is the area to be immediately saturated with slower light aircraft flying as low as practical and equipped with real time gps tracking data sent back to a command center. Unfortunately too late now. No point endangering life and machine trying to find corpses.
As for the blurred images, rather pointless, but the Family is desperate by now. They are willing to try anything. We all would.

Sidewinder wrote:As for the blurred images, rather pointless, but the Family is desperate by now. They are willing to try anything. We all would.

Agreed. Nonetheless, I spent an hour last night looking for the needle just in case.

Me too, It was painful - no points of reference to get your bearings. They should overlay the radar returns, the roads, the stibnite mine, JC so you can get a sense of where you are and where you want to look. Some of the sections were so screwed up it is impossilbe to make out trees even.

Me too. I spent an hour finding Johnson Creek and Stibnite because I want to search the area the ear witness reported. Sure wish the images were better but I'm going to keep looking.

During the infamous Steve Fossett search a few years back, there was actually an organized "crowdsourced" satellite imagery search. I think they used the Amazon Mechanical Turk to distribute the assignments, and it allowed you to download the latest 1 day old sat imagery into Google Earth, pore over your assigned sector, and report any findings. People across the world were searching from the comfort of their IKEA Pöang chairs, but in the end it was some ATV dude who found the wreckage.

Zzz wrote:People across the world were searching from the comfort of their IKEA Pöang chairs

What a highly specific reference...

I like it!

I believe most of the terrain between JC/Yellow Pine and Stibnite is pretty densely wooded! Plane could be deep in the trees at ground level.

But, if the plane went straight in nose first, maybe look real hard for a hole/broken branches in the trees? I dunno. Just thinking.

Also, while trucking along these snowy highways, I've noticed that Black Crows are about the only birds munching on road kill. Black Crows are easy to spot in white snow. So if anybody see's a flock of crows flying around a certain spot, investigate that area very well! Just another crazy idea, I know.

Sure there's always hope to get closure sooner and I really feel bad for the family. But reality is that the search may have to wait for spring. But doesn't hurt to keep flying over the area on nice days.

I have been doing some more thinking. This is just my opinion. I looked at last reported altitude on radar, possible decent rate, last reported ground speed, possible direction of flight path, and elevation of the terrain.

With out digging back ony iPhone, what again did the ear witness say he heard? Did he hear what he believed was the actual impact with terrain noise. Or over flying or near Sibnite with engine trouble? I think I heard both in separate posts here. Sure would be nice to hear the exact details from the ear witness.

Man, sure wish I can help!

pif_sonic wrote:I have been doing some more thinking. This is just my opinion. I looked at last reported altitude on radar, possible decent rate, last reported ground speed, possible direction of flight path, and elevation of the terrain.

I think that's a pretty good area to start to look!! I think I remember seeing in the video the ear witness kinda pointing in that general area where he heard the noise from.

I think you on to something, Pif Sonic!

It's a bit perplexing. According to the time and altitude charts here http://aireform.com/ntsb-fatal-accidents-a-page-with-further-inforecordslinks/fatal-aviation-accidents-2013q4/bonanza-n36ml-reported-lost-in-the-idaho-mountains-with-5-on-board-12113-12-noon/ The trouble started at 2:55 and terminated around 3:02. 7 min, averaging a speed of 180 mph and only losing 3000' He could travel 21 miles with altitude to spare. Could have possibly have made it back to McCall, but that's a mute point now.

He was an experienced IFR pilot. His instrumentation would have told him he was crossing just North of mid field at JC. Makes no sense why he would continue straight into no mans land. Judging by the pins posted by Pif-sonic it appears that he may have been initiating a turn to the South to perhaps setup an approach into the South end of JC increasing his decent rate to lose altitude. Unfortunately there are two ridges he would have to clear. The one close to his last tracked position, could have cleared, but at the last rate of decent reported. he would have Surly hit the one 2 miles to the South. For anyone going out that way it might be worth a look over.

I know everyone hates conjecture, but unfortunately that's all we got for now .For those of us on here who are capable of accessing the area and willing to put in a little time looking. It might help narrow down a search area a little, if we could somehow get inside the pilots head and ask ourselves, what would we do at that time, knowing we were crossing over a strip in a narrow valley 5000' below us, with shit visibility and no engine. Besides mercilessly shitting ourselves.

Everybody keeps reporting engine trouble, I don't think that was the root problem. I believe he picked up ice and was in a mandatory controlled descent while IMC. This could have added to the issue of vision even if he was to break out of the clouds before impact in that the windshield may have been iced over as well.
Looking at the speeds and descent rates I think it's fairly evident that he had power to me. Certainly not trimmed for best glide and windmilling.

On another note I have effected change in the interest of being able to be part of the solution in the future. I contacted Dan at ITD-Aeronautics and asked to be added to the SAR volunteer pilot list. He was very accommodating and informative about how SAR works in Idaho. I was cc'd in an email that went to my district coordinator asking that I be added. Last night I received an email from my district coordinator (NOT CAP, a county sheriff that happens to fly) with a pilot history form attached. I will have to attend training in Montana next October in order to go out on a search. They are also considering beginning a SAR training program right here in Idaho in the future. Again, although CAP is certainly involved in searches in Idaho, ITD-Aero is the point on the operation and the main coordinator of asset usage.
All seemed very cordial, inviting, and professional to me to this point but clearly these PRIOR preparatory steps are necessary if I expect to be allowed in later when something actually happens.

2 more thoughts:

If he was picking up ice - the initial descent rates would have rapidly accelerated as ice built up.

Perhaps he was setting up for a circling descent to JC?

I too wonder why he would have flown over midfield. I'd also like to know what information ATC gave him. I understand he asked for coordinates of JC. If that's true - he didn't have a GPS on board? Or one with current airstrips in it? If he had a GPS but not the JC airport - putting in those coordinates - if he was able to write them down - manually in the stress of the situation would seem impossible to me.

Is there a recording of the known ATC communication?

I need to run out to the airport today or tomorrow, so I'll see if my 430W's database includes 3U2--but I'll be surprised if it does. Although it shows on the sectional, it does not show on the L chart (many VFR-only airports are purposely omitted from L charts).

I'm still puzzled that I cannot find any California pilots named Dale Smith in the FAA's data base who have anything other than private licenses without instrument ratings, except for one ATP who is pretty clearly an airline pilot and whose address doesn't at all match with the address of the owner of the subject Bonanza. Very curious.

At this stage, though, it would be a mistake to think that anyone could still be alive. It's one thing to survive in rugged country in the summer time; it's another altogether different thing in bitter cold wintry weather, this long after the disappearance. It would not be good to risk others in any hope of finding survivors.

Cary

Cary: 3U2 is on the 430W

Did this plane have a 430 on it? If he was IFR rated - would he be flying only w/ the low altitude charts and not a VFR sectional?

Perhaps he is a Montana pilot? Is Dale a middle name?