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Are the brake caliper mounts available from ABW as well as the 10" wheels? Also are you guys upgrading the brakes are using the same clevelands you had on the 8.00X6 setup?

Thanks

Lots of folks over on the 170 club swear you dont need to upgrade to the dbl piston brake. Ole George says actually claims you will nose over...

For me, I went and upgraded. Run them on the 180 also. I found it to be a good upgrade and well worth it. Funny enough, the cheapest place I found them was indeed from ABW. They were like $300 cheaper than spruce. Kicker was it was cheaper to buy an entire kit including wheels/brakes than just the brakes alone.

bigrenna,

I'm having a hard time following what you felt you were responding to. MTV said that the 8.5 x 6 tires are almost as large as 26" Goodyears. You then show that 8.5 x 10 tires are lots bigger than 8.00 x 6 tires. But it seemed you thought something was off about MTV's statement comparing the 8.5 x 6 and the Goodyear 26?

I was trying to be cheeky when I thought he was saying 800s were almost the same size as 8.5s, but like a dumbass, I didn't read his post very carefully. After rereading it, I realized It didn't make much sense. I rarely do....

Maybe I should have phrased the question about the caliper brackets differently. I was just wondering if there was any clearance issues with the calipers and the larger diameter wheels since the caliper is now riding next to the wheel and not the tire like on my 8.00x6 setup.

Thanks

bigrenna wrote:I was trying to be cheeky when I thought he was saying 800s were almost the same size as 8.5s, but like a dumbass, I didn't read his post very carefully. After rereading it, I realized It didn't make much sense. I rarely do....

Ahh...but you do make a lot of sense...which is why I was trying to sort out what you said here. Been loving following the restoration thread.

Rv8tor wrote:Maybe I should have phrased the question about the caliper brackets differently. I was just wondering if there was any clearance issues with the calipers and the larger diameter wheels since the caliper is now riding next to the wheel and not the tire like on my 8.00x6 setup.

Thanks

Still not exactly sure what you're asking. 8.50 x 6 and 26 Goodyear go right on the same wheels as the 8.00. If you're going to 29 x10 or 8.50 x 10, there are two ways to get there: Glue in wheel adapters. That "extend" your existing wheels to accept the ten inch tires, OR Alaska Bushwheels sells ten inch wheels. Both should work with the existing calipers, as far as I know.

Bigrenna, not to worry, I pretty regularly confuse myself....

MTV

Just wanted to verify that I can buy the ABW wheels and they will work fine with my current Cleveland discs and calipers.

Rv8tor wrote:Just wanted to verify that I can buy the ABW wheels and they will work fine with my current Cleveland discs and calipers.

As long as you have double puck clevelands.

Rob is correct. The STC requires the installation of the dbl pucks.

bigrenna wrote:Rob is correct. The STC requires the installation of the dbl pucks.

I thought the STC requires "heavy duty brakes".
It's up to the IA to decide what is heavy duty.

AKclimber wrote:

bigrenna wrote:Rob is correct. The STC requires the installation of the dbl pucks.

I thought the STC requires "heavy duty brakes".
It's up to the IA to decide what is heavy duty.

Pretty sure you're right. I had single pucks with 26" Airstreaks on my Cessna 140, compared to the original brakes, they are plenty "heavy duty"

Though with the bigger airplanes, you really need double pucks to get quality braking power with bushwheels.

YMMV

bart wrote:

AKclimber wrote:

bigrenna wrote:Rob is correct. The STC requires the installation of the dbl pucks.

I thought the STC requires "heavy duty brakes".
It's up to the IA to decide what is heavy duty.

Pretty sure you're right. I had single pucks with 26" Airstreaks on my Cessna 140, compared to the original brakes, they are plenty "heavy duty"

Though with the bigger airplanes, you really need double pucks to get quality braking power with bushwheels.

YMMV

Same deal I put 26" airstreaks on my champ. It has single puck Cleveland's, they are "heavy duty" compared to the original brakes.

I flew a pponked 180 with single puck brakes on 8.50x6's. They had plenty of braking power. I saw no difference to the other 180 I fly with 8.00x6 and double puck brakes.

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't go anything larger than a 8.50x6 without double puck brakes. A Champ or a 140 would probably do fine but with a larger heavier airplane you're going to want that stopping power. Double pucks also come in handy while taxiing in a strong crosswind.

I have a buddy who tried 8.50s on his 170 with single puck brakes. He didn't feel like there was enough braking power after years of running 8.00s. It was not dangerous, so long as he didn't need a lot of brake, but you know how things can get if a taildragger gets a little sideways.

Rv8tor wrote:Maybe I should have phrased the question about the caliper brackets differently. I was just wondering if there was any clearance issues with the calipers and the larger diameter wheels since the caliper is now riding next to the wheel and not the tire like on my 8.00x6 setup.

Thanks

I think in the portion of thread drift that lead to weather or not there is validity in double pucks everyone missed your real point, which is weather or not you'll run into side wall clearance issues.

robw56 wrote:

Rv8tor wrote:Just wanted to verify that I can buy the ABW wheels and they will work fine with my current Cleveland discs and calipers.

As long as you have double puck clevelands.

This is not entirely correct. Sidewall clearance is dictated by a number of things in the wheel / brake / torque plate combination. It is entirely possible to have double puck brakes and have sidewall issues while running ABW's. The most knowledgable person on this subject I can think of was Wup of bushwheel notoriety . It will be very interesting to see if the new outfit will posses the kind of 'instant answers at a phone' call as he did. Back to your current set up, if you are indeed almost rubbing with 8.00's, then you likely have the earlier double pucks that will rub into an ABW mounted up on your wheel. To alleviate this you can try purchasing later torque plates and longer pins for the caliper (the old bushwheel carried these item on the shelf). Or you can install wheel spacers, again, bushwheel used to carry these, and I have purchased them from Stoddards in the past.

And lastly, I am in Rob's camp on brakes. How much brakes, power, wing etc is enough, is all relative... and with any of these things, too much is rarely a problem. In playing with the Tcart lately, I run into loads of people who proudly exclaim properly adjusted Shinn brakes are more than enough for any Taylorcraft. I honestly believe that for their intended uses, that is probably accurate. For my intended missions, Shinns do not even qualify as brakes. YMMV

Take care, and sorry Matt for the extension of this thread drift,
Rob

mtv wrote:
In my experience, the Goodyear blimp tires are a pretty good match for the 180/185 for most stuff. That said, they're only just a little taller and a little wider than the Goodyear 8.50 x 6.00 tires, which are a LOT cheaper.

Perhaps the biggest advantage of the 26 over the 8.50 tires is that the blimp tires have no tread, so don't throw as many rocks at your stabilizer....a significant concern with wagons......

MTV

MTV,
Do you know if the Good Year 8.50 x 6 tires are made from the same rubber compound as the 26 inch blimp tires? While more expensive, the blimp tires seem like a really good value simply because they last so long.

mountainmatt wrote:Thanks for all the info gents.
Rob, I believe you went with a ceconite base and added foam/leather? Any idea what your front seats weigh? Thanks for the contact, I'll give them a call for a quote. I also envy your back 206 seats, perhaps something to think about in the distant future.
"As light as possible, as heavy as necessary." Noted, thx!

Matt, my seats are the round backs and have an all up weight of 8.9 pounds ea., which is in line with Gregs notes above. Mine came in a tad lighter for the reasons I noted earlier (foam choice, nylon base vs springs, and leather choice). My back seats weigh a few ounces less as they are shorter and do not have heaters in them. If I am reading Gregs post right, that is a 10+ pound per side difference for his front seats compared to mine. His are a work of art, mine just work

On the 206 mid seat thing, I don't believe there was ever a 206 round back. SO if keeping things the same means anything to you, you will have to deviate from the STC and to find a set of 1 series round backs, and have the bases modified, both in height (because the front seats are taller) and in width (because the seat tracks are wider on the 2 series). You can't just set the tracks to the 1 series width, because part of the STC is to install a couple bulkheads in the belly under the tracks, and they are appropriate to 2 series width. The modification is pretty simple stuff, finding an IA / Fed who will walk with you on this may prove challenging.

http://www.azaircraftinteriors.com/about-us/who-we-are/
Take care, Rob

Another note on brakes. I just recently put my 8.00s back on while I work on the 170 project. The brake discs that come with single puck Clevelands vs double pucks are different. I assumed the brake discs from the single pucks would work just fine with the double puck calipers, they will not. The discs aren't as deep (and also thinner). I had to swap the discs to make things work right. Also if you're worried about tire rub, as others have pointed out, you may want to run the spacers and longer bolts available from AKBW. I had to run 2 spacers per wheel to gain adequate clearance. Even then the bushwheels would occasionally rub at low PSI, though not enough to be a concern after a few hundred hours. Some airplanes have to mount the brakes with the caliper facing down at an angle (not straight forward or back) my 170 is like this. This makes the tire rub issue more of a concern as it puts the caliper closer to the bottom of the tire where there is the most tire flex during ground ops and landing. If I had lady legs or 180 gear I could run the calipers in the proper position and spacers wouldn't be needed. I've noticed my plane isn't the only one set up this way, some Maules and Stinsons run into the same issue. Sorry for getting off topic Matt.