Backcountry Pilot • Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International (Final Chapter)

Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International (Final Chapter)

Debrief, share, and hopefully learn from the mistakes of others.
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International

Cary wrote:
I think I made it clear that I am not conversant in Idaho law. What I described, therefore, is the common law issue of trespassers vs. licensees vs. invitees, somewhat generically. Quoting a statute is not a good way of conducting legal research, as the courts have a tendency to construe things a bit different from what the legislatures appear to have said. So I would not be willing to accept that quoted statute as fully protecting a landowner without further research.


We are not aware of anyone being successfully sued when the basic provisions are met.

However, it is a good start, and so I looked it up--it is Idaho Code § 36-1604. Singularly, a very important caveat which every Idaho landowner should be aware of is this: The protections of the statute do not "Apply to any person or persons who for compensation permit the land to be used for recreational purposes." So charge a fee, Mr. Idaho Landowner, and according to the statute, you're back to being potentially liable, and now we're back to the common law issue of trespasser vs. licensee vs. invitee.


Yes, the whole purpose of all state RUS's are so landowners can let folks recreate on their land for free. That is how virtually all recreation is done on private property.
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International

Super-Maule wrote:.... The pilot/owner has hired a A&P/IA to assist in the recovery of the wrecked Cessna 182 next Friday AM from my airstrp. I'm very happy he did this, and hope all goes well. Spoke with the mechanic on the phone and he has all the gear including the trailer. ...


Removing the wings & loading the airplane on a trailer isn't rocket science, I've done it successfully and without mishap with help from some friends and without an A&P in attendance. If having an A&P involved makes you happy, that's great. But although I hate to stir things up again, I've seen too many A&P's do everyday dumb stuff to have that be much comfort to me-- after all, they're only human (most of them anyways). IMHO common sense (which isnt all that common these days) is much more important than an FAA license, but I imagine you got a pretty good feel for that in your phone call with him.
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International

hotrod180 wrote:
Super-Maule wrote:.... The pilot/owner has hired a A&P/IA to assist in the recovery of the wrecked Cessna 182 next Friday AM from my airstrp. I'm very happy he did this, and hope all goes well. Spoke with the mechanic on the phone and he has all the gear including the trailer. ...


Removing the wings & loading the airplane on a trailer isn't rocket science, I've done it successfully and without mishap with help from some friends and without an A&P in attendance. If having an A&P involved makes you happy, that's great. But although I hate to stir things up again, I've seen too many A&P's do everyday dumb stuff to have that be much comfort to me-- after all, they're only human (most of them anyways). IMHO common sense (which isnt all that common these days) is much more important than an FAA license, but I imagine you got a pretty good feel for that in your phone call with him.


Agreed!

Biggest advantage to having an A&P for taking the plane apart is.....

Not further damaging the wreckage making it easier to go back together.
I have seen planes with hacksawed fuel lines, clipped control cables, bolts thrown away, wings thrown on a triler and stacked with no padding between etc.
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International

but I imagine you got a pretty good feel for that in your phone call with him.


On the phone the A & P knew that the tail is 11 feet wide on a Cessna 182. He also mentioned that the wheels have to be squeezed together by a ratchet strap or come-a-long to fit on a 8 foot wide trailer. This obviously isn't this guys first rodeo. I also checked him out by talking to some of the other guys at the office.

After I get this aluminum (the wreck) off my property Friday morning, I just plan on spraying my runway and haystrip for weeds. Banvel, 24-D, and sticker from the 25 gallon tank on my ATV.

In my opinion this has been a successful thread. Most of the comments were awesome except the individuals that posted the pilot's personal information. (really) I also appreciate the attorneys comments regarding the legality of landing on a private airstrip. I think this was an informative thread to the 3000+ that viewed it. Zane has created a great forum for pilots and airplane owners.

Anyway I look forward to seeing the trailer and airplane disappearing from my property. Hopefully my neighbor's will calm down and things will get back to normal. My airstrip, Clear Creek International 79ID is depicted on the Great Falls Sectional Chart. Air Nav has my contact information for permission to land. I hope people extend me this courtesy in the future. Normally I consider a pilot's skill level and equipment before allowing them to land at my airstrip. This is mainly for their own safety. Clear Creek is a very difficult airstrip to say the least.

Cheers,

James
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International

Super-Maule wrote:..... Normally I consider a pilot's skill level and equipment before allowing them to land at my airstrip. This is mainly for their own safety. Clear Creek is a very difficult airstrip to say the least.


It can't be too tough if someone landed that tractor there. But it'd really impress me if they can take off again with it and clear the trees. =D>
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International

Oh boy, if all else fails throw the A&P under the bus!! LOL :P

I agree this has been a good thread and I have enjoyed most of the posts. I just finished clearing and stacking all the trees off of my soon to be airstrip. It has been my life long dream and it will be exciting to use it one day but I have had some reservations on things like unauthorized use, registering with the FAA or not, unhappy neighbors etc. Thanks Super-Maule for sharing your experience as it has been inspiring and and eye opener at the same time. I just hope it is not too challaging to my flying skills!! [-o<
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International

As far as registering...a friend lives on an airstrip which is a (sort of) airpark arrangement with the airstrip going down one side of everyone's property, but he is the only pilot that lives there. He is within 1-1/2 miles of our county airport, and was kind of worried that his operations might be hindered when we got our long-awaited R-Nav approach. I suggested that he might ant to register the strip, but have it left off the charts. That way, he would already be grandfathered in when the approach for the county airport happened. Also, it gives him some legitimacy if & when the neighbors or the county gripes about the strip: "it is an FAA-approved airport". So that's what he did. No benefits to doing it yet, except that now anyone who has an "off-airport exclusion" on their insurance is now covered when landing there. But no drawbacks either.
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International

hotrod180 wrote:As far as registering...a friend lives on an airstrip which is a (sort of) airpark arrangement with the airstrip going down one side of everyone's property, but he is the only pilot that lives there. He is within 1-1/2 miles of our county airport, and was kind of worried that his operations might be hindered when we got our long-awaited R-Nav approach. I suggested that he might ant to register the strip, but have it left off the charts. That way, he would already be grandfathered in when the approach for the county airport happened. Also, it gives him some legitimacy if & when the neighbors or the county gripes about the strip: "it is an FAA-approved airport". So that's what he did. No benefits to doing it yet, except that now anyone who has an "off-airport exclusion" on their insurance is now covered when landing there. But no drawbacks either.



Those are some good points. Thanks
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International

Super-Maule wrote:Hello Back Country Pilots,

2343 view already, wow!

Well time will tell. Hopefully the pilot will show up with his crew of volunteers ready to remove the Cessna 182 next Friday. I don't want any monetary compensation, just this airplane off my property. My plan is to merely to observe the operation to minimize damage to my airstrip. A pilot/attorney friend of mine suggested that I don't assist or supervise the retrieval of the airplane, due to liability issues. This goes against my nature. My neighbors and I share, heavy equipment, tools and labor routinely. As an example, if I utilize my wheel tractor to pull the plane off the rocks and there is additional damage, I am liable (this sucks). I don't want to sign waivers or releases.

As far as dragging the pilot's name through the mud, I didn't know the N number was visible on one of the pictures. The computer trolls on this site posted the FAA data, not me. I didn't contact the local Sheriff either, my neighbors did. In addition, I declined filing trespass charges when asked. Anyway I hope things go well next Friday with the "volunteers". The pilot/owner is unwilling to hire a professional, although I understand he has the means ($$$) to do so. I also don't want the Sheriff to have to dispatch a wrecker if the volunteers don't work out. It's not the airplanes fault.

Cheers,

James

Yep, just as bad as the OP running to this Open Forum the day after the accident to tell the world about this pilots F up and misfortune!
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International

I'm not a troll I come on this website frequently. I find it amazing that a man will trash somebody behind a keyboard and then be proud of how many hits he's got on this forum. It's unfortunate that this man from Idaho crashed his plane Strip bagging, and it's unfortunate that he did it on your private airstrip. I would be pissed to!

But guess what this is a public forum and you draged the man through the mud and you published a picture with his N number visible, your man enough to drag him through the mud but you're not man enough to tell us who he is. You know what they say once more than one person knows about it it's not a secret anymore.

Have a nice day
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International

I disagree with the comments made in the last two posts. I don't think Supermaule trashed anyone from behind his typewriter, nor did he drag anyone through the mud. I went back & read the first several posts in this thread. IMHO Supermaule told us about the incident just like you'd tell your airport buddy. Actually in a lot nicer and more restrained manner than I would have told my airport buddy about it, if it were my private airstrip.

I also couldn't see any tailnumbers in the photos in the first post. Maybe if you zoomed way in or something, but just casual looking at the photos they weren't visible to me. Also keep in mind that he was not the one who posted the airplane registration link.
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International

Easy fellas, this is an interesting story for most of us. Don't get it sent to hot air, I want to read the final chapter.
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International

ok so by that way of thinking we shouldn't have discusion on any mishaps here... didn't hear anyone piss and moan about the bonanza crash at JC... didn't hear anyone piss and moan about the mention of the 210 at Upper loon... didn't hear complaints about the postings of the stinson .....I wouldn't have known who the pilot was if his name wasn't disclosed by someone who took extra steps to see the tail number in the photos then posted it for all to see......also don't see where James dragged the guy through the mud... and as far as saying James isn't man enough to tell who the pilot is...say what?????? ....Identifying the pilot would be and was pretty shitty if you ask me....
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International

Yup....I TOTALLY agree with Iceman!! I thought James did a nice job of describing what happened and NOT dragging the guy through the mud! In fact, wasn't it mentioned at the start of this thread that he didn't want to include the numbers or the pilot's name? I have my own airport so was interested in the whole thread... but could've done without the negative as usual.
Ohwell....
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International (Final Chapter)

Hello Backcountry Pilots,

It took five men 4.5 hours to pull the wings off the CE-182, load it, and get on the road. The tail is 11 feet wide, hope that worked out for them. The owner is contemplating a tail-wheel conversion because the nose gear is now retractable. Anyway the weather has been very dry, so there was no damage to my airstrip. Just hope this doesn't happen again, but at least no-one was hurt.

James

Clear Creek, Idaho
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International (Final Chapter)

Definitely an "all's well that ends well" story. Glad no one was hurt and property damage was limited to the airplane.

Why the owner would want to convert to a tail dragger is beyond me. He first needs to learn how to fly the airplane! Swapping ends with the little wheel won't accomplish that. Your strip is small, but after watching the video and looking at its dimensions, any Skylane pilot with just a little practice should have no trouble getting in. Getting back out might be a bit dicey, with any load.

Cary
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International (Final Chapter)

That looks about like the sort of po' boy setup that would come drag my dumb ass out of a tight spot. Good to know that it could be done in 4.5 hours with 4 friends, 4 pallets, and a $200 snowmobile trailer. There was probably a substantial layout for beer money though I suspect.
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International (Final Chapter)

Nosedragger wrote:That looks about like the sort of po' boy setup that would come drag my dumb ass out of a tight spot. Good to know that it could be done in 4.5 hours with 4 friends, 4 pallets, and a $200 snowmobile trailer. There was probably a substantial layout for beer money though I suspect.

:P :P :P

Tru Dat-

Glad all is well James. Seemed like this happened a year ago #-o
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International (Final Chapter)

I peruse these boards regularly, but usually on my tablet, not on the big computer. I seldom log in when I use the tablet. It is a hassle. Well, I just found out that not all of the threads show up if you don't log on. This is the first time I've seen this thread. It kept me glued to the computer for all 6 pages! I'm sorry about the hassle this turned into, but I'm glad nobody was seriously injured.

I'm also impressed as can be with the gem of a strip you've built for yourself. That has been a long-standing fantasy with me, but I can barely afford the plane and the 1/3 acre lot I hope to build a small home on. Still, it is great seeing some folks living the dream. I hope this whole saga doesn't create problems with the neighbors over your strip. I fly over LOTS of small grass strips I'd love to try, but only twice in all my years of flying have I contacted an owner and asked for permission. Both owners were gracious, but only one said yes. I have tried to meet folks that own interesting strips and once a connection is made I hope for an invitation. That has also happened a couple of times. The good thing about living in the PNW is that there are a LOT of public grass strips in really beautiful locations that don't require any permission to use. I think I'll stick with them for now.

I'll also start logging on when I visit this site so I don't miss excitement like this again!
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Re: Bent Metal @ Clear Creek International (Final Chapter)

Flyhound wrote:I peruse these boards regularly, but usually on my tablet, not on the big computer. I seldom log in when I use the tablet. It is a hassle. Well, I just found out that not all of the threads show up if you don't log on. This is the first time I've seen this thread. It kept me glued to the computer for all 6 pages! I'm sorry about the hassle this turned into, but I'm glad nobody was seriously injured.

I'm also impressed as can be with the gem of a strip you've built for yourself. That has been a long-standing fantasy with me, but I can barely afford the plane and the 1/3 acre lot I hope to build a small home on. Still, it is great seeing some folks living the dream. I hope this whole saga doesn't create problems with the neighbors over your strip. I fly over LOTS of small grass strips I'd love to try, but only twice in all my years of flying have I contacted an owner and asked for permission. Both owners were gracious, but only one said yes. I have tried to meet folks that own interesting strips and once a connection is made I hope for an invitation. That has also happened a couple of times. The good thing about living in the PNW is that there are a LOT of public grass strips in really beautiful locations that don't require any permission to use. I think I'll stick with them for now.

I'll also start logging on when I visit this site so I don't miss excitement like this again!

Hey fly hound, download tapatalk on your tablet. That way you stay logged on and cam read everything. Also makes it very easy to post pictures. It's real handy and makes reading this forum super easy.

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