I want some of whatever you been havin

I am just now realizing how lucky I've been not to incinerate myself fueling my airplane from plastic jerry cans over these past 15 years. Extrapolating from my tach time & fuel burn, I've poured close to 3500 cans worth into the airplanes with nary a mishap other than spilling some gas on the wing once in a while. But no more-- from now on, I plan on fueling my airplane only while butt naked & well covered with bear grease, and only while it's raining. Just for safety's sake, of course-- which is what I plan on telling anyone who asks me why I'm doing what I'm doing.
Will one of the moderators please lock this 4 year old thread down?

Will one of the moderators please lock this 4 year old thread down?

On a lesser level, isn't that similar to the thinkin that some do, to have the gov't protect us from ourselves. If the tread annoyed ya, wouldn't it be simpler just to ignore/not participate in it.

Personally, I have thought that it has gotten kinda entertaining(not necessarily a pretty picture ), but some guy or gal, butt naked, fly away hair, all lubed up, putting fuel into their plane.

Plus, as we have recently learned,Zane, and possably others moderators too, have more important things to do, like sewing up their only pair of skivvies or socks.

Which brings up another thought, go commando and put that money you been spending on undies, socks, and sewing machines, into beer and fuel for the plane, and go have fun.

Merry Christmas
Cheers
Gary

Hotrod does have a point. When people start to post stuff that really doesn't do much to converse the issue, mocking a somewhat serious issue, the original point is lost. We sorta crested that hill a long time ago on this one. Been on the downslope for a while now.

There is what you believe without proof, and there is proven science. You can't see cancer, you probably don't understand it well, and it hasn't happened to you yet in all the years you've been living, but make no mistake that it's serious and real. If you only make your decisions based only upon your own personal empirical data, life can be really tough. Berk for example. He started this thread, but now he's dead. CFIT wasn't on his list of immediate concerns that day in 2007 and it got him. It always seems like the stuff I dismiss that comes back to bite my ass.

My underwear on the other hand are GAP boxers, and always rip in the same spot. All I will tell you is that it's in the front. That there is empirical data with no solid conclusion that I can mention on our family oriented site.

akavidflyer wrote: I would venture a guess that you have a better chance getting taken out by a car walking across the street than you do burning you plane up cause you were filling it up with a plastic gas can.

This reminds me of a news story in Spokane were a guy robbed a Nordstroms in the last couple days and when he ran out of the store he was run over by a police officer. What a way to get caught. I know its off topic so Ill get in line here.

I am wondering if any one can let me know if I am in danger of blowing up......

I use a metal slip tank. I have it sitting on a plastic bed liner when I fill it up so I BOND the tank to the truck frame when filling it.

When I fill the airplane up I connect the positive and negative power leads for the pump to the pickup battery, bond the slip tank to the truck frame as well as the airplane. Is there any thing else I should do or any thing I should do differently?

Thanks so much for your input!

Paul

XKV8R wrote:

akavidflyer wrote: I would venture a guess that you have a better chance getting taken out by a car walking across the street than you do burning you plane up cause you were filling it up with a plastic gas can.

This reminds me of a news story in Spokane were a guy robbed a Nordstroms in the last couple days and when he ran out of the store he was run over by a police officer. What a way to get caught. I know its off topic so Ill get in line here.

I am wondering if any one can let me know if I am in danger of blowing up......

I use a metal slip tank. I have it sitting on a plastic bed liner when I fill it up so I BOND the tank to the truck frame when filling it.

When I fill the airplane up I connect the positive and negative power leads for the pump to the pickup battery, bond the slip tank to the truck frame as well as the airplane. Is there any thing else I should do or any thing I should do differently?

Thanks so much for your input!

Paul

Have the plane insured, don't fill in the hangar, have a fire extinguisher handy, dress like a fireman.

Good day

XKV8R wrote:When I fill the airplane up I connect the positive and negative power leads for the pump to the pickup battery, bond the slip tank to the truck frame as well as the airplane. Is there any thing else I should do or any thing I should do differently?

As long as your pump hose is conductive, and the filler gun thingy is metal, it sounds like you're good.

RobBurson wrote:

Have the plane insured, don't fill in the hangar, have a fire extinguisher handy, dress like a fireman.

Good day[/quote][/quote]

Thanks Rob, I feel much better now

Zane wrote:

XKV8R wrote:When I fill the airplane up I connect the positive and negative power leads for the pump to the pickup battery, bond the slip tank to the truck frame as well as the airplane. Is there any thing else I should do or any thing I should do differently?

As long as your pump hose is conductive, and the filler gun thingy is metal, it sounds like you're good.

Thanks Zane Ill buy a new hose so I no I am using a conductive hose..

XKV8R wrote:Thanks Zane Ill buy a new hose so I no I am using a conductive hose..

This is were I buy my fueling supplies. I have been satisfied.

http://www.jmesales.com/

hotrod150 wrote: Will one of the moderators please lock this 4 year old thread down?

We probably are a bit over the top on this issue, but it has remained a thread of interest to me. I guess there is a morbid interest in reading about how everyone deals with this and other common flying issues. It seems that when a thread gets too long, people are reading it for entertainment aspects rather than knowledge. This particular issue continues to get our interest because as backcountry pilots we all have to deal with the refueling from plastic cans from time to time. I do it a lot, but I remain very cautious because I have known of three friends that did have plastic cans catch fire on them -- two while fueling airplanes, and one fueling an ATV. Only the ATV accident resulted in only a bit of melted plastic as the guy just by shear luck happened to have an extinguisher near by.

So, I remain very cautious when I fill my airplane form plastic jugs, but still continue to read this thread despite its having been run into the ground. There certainly isn't much else to learn from the thread. MTV has patiently (but not always) tried to explain the difference between bonding the airplane verses grounding, but this has somewhat become a moot point since a bonded airplane is hopefully being bonded to a fuel system that is grounded -- so same thing. But if the system is not grounded, at least by bonding, the charge of the system is neutral and ostensibly should not cause a spark. This has gotten a little bit confusing when one tries to explain the phenomena by inject the word "grounding" of an electrical circuit within your plane or other vehicle. And of course there is still the issue of the spark that may emanate from the spout of your plastic can to the bonded/grounded airplane.

Unfortunately we all seem to want instant gratification. All of these issues whether fueling form plastic cans, or trying to find the optimum backcountry engine heater system have been discussed ad nauseum in previous threads. But rarely do we bother to read the earlier posts in the present thread, let alone research past threads from the historical archives.

Nevertheless, I continue to read this thread because I think the issue is relevant; I have indeed learned something from what everyone else (or at least some of you) have had to say about the issue; and because, there is a certain gallows humor that everyone brings to their posts that I guess I just find entertaining to read.

At any rate, I think that this has been a good thread, and its long life seems to reflect the nervous attention in the back of our minds that we give the subject. It’s kind of like the “moose stall” – while we think that we might understand its dynamics, we are always questing to learn more about it – over and over again.

Well, cabin fever has obviously set in early here in the Wrangell Mountains.
So Merry Christmas to all.
Nizina

Sorry for my request to log this thread. I've just seem other threads locked down when they weren't beat to death half as much as this one.
If it's gonna remain open, here's one more question on bonding/grounding/earthing or whatever- I set the plastic can on top of the metal wing, then tip it over into pouring position into the filler. The can is always touching the airplane, & during actual fuel transfer so is the plastic can nozzle. So in this scenario is the airplane & can electrically bonded?

hotrod150 wrote:here's one more question on bonding/grounding/earthing or whatever- I set the plastic can on top of the metal wing, then tip it over into pouring position into the filler. The can is always touching the airplane, & during actual fuel transfer so is the plastic can nozzle. So in this scenario is the airplane & can electrically bonded?

No. Earlier in the thread, a few pages in maybe, it was determined that the primary problem is that a plastic object cannot be reliably bonded due to the poor conductive properties of plastic (it's a better insulator.) It will not predictably discharge if it has any static charge, so if you've bonded it at one location, the static in another area of the plastic can still discharge to your fingertip with a spark.

hotrod150 wrote: I set the plastic can on top of the metal wing, then tip it over into pouring position into the filler. The can is always touching the airplane, & during actual fuel transfer so is the plastic can nozzle. So in this scenario is the airplane & can electrically bonded?

That is the way that I do it, but supposedly even that is not totally safe. Another way to do it so that you don't have to bond the can directly to the wing is to insert a foot long cable through your spout and keep it loosely in place with a large nut and washer inside the can, all of which becomes bonded with the fuel in the container. Then simply insert the other end of the cable into our airplane and its contact should equalize the charge while filling the airplane without having to lay your can on the wing. Of course this is not possible with these new EPA regulated nozzles -- aargh!!

Nizina

Nizina wrote:

hotrod150 wrote: I set the plastic can on top of the metal wing, then tip it over into pouring position into the filler. The can is always touching the airplane, & during actual fuel transfer so is the plastic can nozzle. So in this scenario is the airplane & can electrically bonded?

That is the way that I do it, but supposedly even that is not totally safe. Another way to do it so that you don't have to bond the can directly to the wing is to insert a foot long cable through your spout and keep it loosely in place with a large nut and washer inside the can, all of which becomes bonded with the fuel in the container. Then simply insert the other end of the cable into our airplane and its contact should equalize the charge while filling the airplane without having to lay your can on the wing. Of course this is not possible with these new EPA regulated nozzles -- aargh!!

Nizina

NO! The cable through the spout will work great for mitigating any static electricity that gets generated by the gas gurgling through the nozzle. However, if the can of fuel already had a different electric potential than the airplane, then you will make a spark when you start to pour, and now you've ensured that the spark will be at the filler neck of the fuel tank, right where the fuel vapor /air mixture is at the optimum for ignition.

The bond connection must take place at a safe location!

kevbert wrote:NO! The cable through the spout will work great for mitigating any static electricity that gets generated by the gas gurgling through the nozzle. However, if the can of fuel already had a different electric potential than the airplane, then you will make a spark when you start to pour, and now you've ensured that the spark will be at the filler neck of the fuel tank, right where the fuel vapor /air mixture is at the optimum for ignition.

The bond connection must take place at a safe location!

I certainly don't disagree with your point, but there are only so many ways to bond a plastic tank. Frankly when using the cable through the spout, I still always make sure to bond the can to the airplane in some way (generally by just resting the can on the wing in some fashion) prior to inserting the cable into the fuel tank. And even then I try to make sure that my hand provides part of the circuit away from the fuel tank prior to inserting the cable. There is no perfect way to fill a tank from a plastic can, but at least this thread is highlighting some of the issues and best practices. If you just try to bond the can by laying it on the wing, at some point you are going to have to lift the plastic can in order to pour all the fuel into the tank. The cable in the spout ameliorates that situation.

Nizina

Nizina wrote: but there are only so many ways to bond a plastic tank.

Actually, there is no way to bond a plastic can. That's the entire thesis of this thread. Safely bonding a plastic can to avoid discharge is like trying to pick up all the hair clippings on the barbershop floor with a piece of string and bubblegum in a single pass... whereas the metal can represents all that hair being one single long strand.

Nizina, I was specifically taking exception to your previous post where you stated that you could use the cable "without having to lay your can on the wing". Placing a plastic can on the wing is a very high resistance electrical bond, but it's better than nothing, especially if you leave it there for a few moments.

I hate the plastic cans. I couldn't find any place selling steel ones for quite awhile, but I just found that this company now has them. Check out the stainless ones! I wonder if they're cheap Chinese junk?
http://www.sandparts.com/servlet/the-Jerry-Cans/Categories
The big problem I see with them is that they have a sharp edge on the bottom front that might dent your plane when you set it on the wing and then try to tip it.

kevbert wrote:http://www.sandparts.com/servlet/the-Jerry-Cans/Categories
The big problem I see with them is that they have a sharp edge on the bottom front that might dent your plane when you set it on the wing and then try to tip it.

That Stainless steel one looks pretty nice. They don't give any specs on it, but I would feel better about using that one rather than plastic. Unfortunately there are not many steel tanks that are geometrically pleasing to me. They all seem to be modeled after the old "jeep" jerry can. They just don't fly well for my needs...

Nizina

This squatty 5 gallon version does look rather nice. Little pricey though.