Ok, time for me to chime in

Gas fires involving plastic gas cans CAN happen!! I saw it with my two eyes. Maybe this fire was the one in a billion?? (probably) This happened at our Daytona Tire Test in Dec of 08. The Honda team was transferring fuel from a drum to the plastic can when it ignited


A small fire broke out in the Honda garage this afternoon but was quickly extinguished.
Image by Dean Adams. http://superbikeplanet.com

All I am saying is look at all the millions of times everyday equipment is filled with plastic cans in the US. If it was a problem, even a little problem, the government would put a stop to it. I for one am not as worried about plastic gas cans. Static sparks a little.

I am more worried about the drive to the airport and in flight emergencies.

Any time you deal with gas you should think about fire. Take REASONABLE precautions. Clothing that melts to your skin is bad, nylon, rayon types. Long sleeves leather gloves good. Tank tops and flip flops, well, not so good. Have a fire extinguisher if you want to try and put it out. If I am not ready to fight fire, I will run away and let it burn. There is not any plane that is worth getting burned over.

I have good insurance.

Hey 58Skylane maybe those Honda guys were smoking a joint and gettin ready to pour there gas into a sink Ya look at those guys wandering around looking all stoned.

Glidergeek wrote:Hey 58Skylane maybe those Honda guys were smoking a joint and gettin ready to pour there gas into a sink

If I remember right, the fuel just ignited out of the blue . No source of spark nearby, except for static. The humidity was very low being that it was in Dec, in Florida. We think that it was because of the high octane level. No for sure answer as of yet. For now on, we are required to have a grounding strap on our shoes, fuel drums grounded, and make sure you touch something to discharge the static electricity on self before pumping fuel at the track or race shop.

How come it didn't blow up like in all the movies. Did y'all make a mess with the dry chem ext??

Fuel won't blow up unless it's contained somehow, to build up pressure. You've been watching too much television . It will burn, and that photo is worth a thousand words. The blue flame is precisely what one friend of mine noted just before the whole fuel tank erupted in flames. He got off the wing, and was burned pretty bad on hands and some on face, but otherwise okay. He said he was pouring fuel, and then there was this "pretty blue flame, flickering."

Again, doesn't happen all the time. No offense to firemen, but when it comes to fuel handling, talk to a fuel handling specialist. THEY will tell you about static. It's a HUGE part of their job.

MTV

mtv wrote:Fuel won't blow up unless it's contained somehow, to build up pressure. ....

I call bullshit on this one. I once poured a little gas into my burn barrel to get some damp trash going, and discovered I'd left my matches inside. Got the matches and came back outside, and stood a safe distance away ( I'm not a total idiot ) & tossed a lit match into the barrel. KABOOM! I'd been gone just long enough for the gas to turn into vapor, but not long enough for it to disipate. That unpressurized explosion blew burning paper & shit all over-- I about crapped myself but otherwise I was OK.

Uh, Hotrod....the BARREL provided the containment in your example....
A nice little pool of vapors to ignite. Another misconception is that liquid fuel will ignite--it won't. Fuel has to vaporize before it will ignite. Pour gas into a barrel, let it vaporize for a bit and toss in a match, you have the equivalent of the chamber of a firearm...with a big bore and short barrel.

Try an experiment: Pour a TINY amount of fuel onto a concrete apron (OUTSIDE, for you rocket scientists) and ignite THAT. No explosion, just ignition and burning. Rapid burning, but not explosive burning.

MTV

mtv wrote:Uh, Hotrod....the BARREL provided the containment in your example.... .....

The (partial) containment only kept the vapors from blowing away, it did not serve to "build up pressure" as per your previous post. Pretty hard to do with no top on the barrel. That's what I called bullshit on. Where's the pressurization in your "big bore and short barrel" example?

Eric

james wrote:Hello Nizina & Backcountry Pilots,
The metal valves stems are only $2.95 a piece at http://www.gemplers.com/product/6008XB/ ... Tire-Valve. I ordered four, but should have got more. To replace the worthless "Enviro-Flo" spouts I ordered four of the old style spouts from: http://www.preferredpowersports.com/esh ... L__WAT.htm at $4.95. NOTE: Not legal for sale in California per California Code of Regulations, Sections 2467-2467.8.

Thanks James

I just love American ingenuity and its ability to come up with solutions to this stupid Nanny-state mentality. I'll order a bunch of the stems and spouts today --muttering.

The Alaska Airman's Supplement does not list either Nuiqsut or Uniat as having fuel, but they might. Fuel is so expensive in rural Alaska and locals often cannot afford to keep significant inventory on hand. Check before going up, but I'd count on bringing along several plastic/metal jugs.

Have fun on your hunt. You should have a great time.

Nizina

My first flight instructor suffered burn injuries during a fire that ignited while fueling her ultralight with a plastic dump can. Exact scenario we are discussing here: Potential between statically charged can and some component of the airframe, discharge and vapor was ignited, which in turn ignited a little spillage. She was burned, the aircraft was burned, etc, etc.

Ok, so you guys who feel compelled to claim that this just doesn't happen, based on your years of experience with plastic gas cans-- that's fine if you want to make yourselves feel better by identifying other elements of risk that should be given greater attention, but this isn't some myth. I for one don't want to be the unlucky one in a thousand who burns up my airplane after ignoring the danger.

In my experience, the things that come back to get me are always the things that I choose to ignore, or that I wasn't aware of in the first place. Well, it's too late for ya'll. You know about the gas can thing so you're forever cursed to think about it when fueling!!

1SeventyZ wrote:Ok, so you guys who feel compelled to claim that this just doesn't happen, based on your years of experience with plastic gas cans-- that's fine if you want to make yourselves feel better by identifying other elements of risk that should be given greater attention, but this isn't some myth. I for one don't want to be the unlucky one in a thousand who burns up my airplane after ignoring the danger.

In my experience, the things that come back to get me are always the things that I choose to ignore, or that I wasn't aware of in the first place. Well, it's too late for ya'll. You know about the gas can thing so you're forever cursed to think about it when fueling!!

I don't think anyone said it was a myth. The fact is, it is a rare occurrence. I'll bet everybody here fills out of plastic cans. Lawn mower, ATV, motorcycle, snowmobile, tiller, weed whacker, etc. If you believe it is a more than a rare occurrence I suggest you get rid of all your plastic cans.

The people here who only use steel cans, I will know you when I see you. You will be the guy with aluminum foil on your head so the government can't scan your brain.



EUREKA!!! I'VE GOT IT. WRAP THE PLASTIC CAN AND NOZZEL IN ALUMINUM FOIL. PROBLEM SOLVED.

Rob, that's just funny!

Rob, I think you have built a capacitor. Warning! May contain an explosive discharge!

hotrod150 wrote:

mtv wrote:Uh, Hotrod....the BARREL provided the containment in your example.... .....

The (partial) containment only kept the vapors from blowing away, it did not serve to "build up pressure" as per your previous post. Pretty hard to do with no top on the barrel. That's what I called bullshit on. Where's the pressurization in your "big bore and short barrel" example?

Eric

Semantics. An explosion in this context is a rapid burning of fuel causing a release of energy. Pressurization only matters as to the rate of energy release (and of course the amount of fuel available in a given volume.)

Actually everyone should be using the term "deflagration"

After watching the video previously posted here I have become increasingly concerned about the static charge created by falling droplets. I have come to the conclusion that peeing outdoors is no longer safe. I know that this practice is necessary for Flying in the Backcountry. Until now we had to take chances of static shock or possibly fire or explosion if nearby flammable substances. I have now developed a kit that you guys can buy to make this practice safe. Here is how it is used.

1. Pound the ground rod into the ground at least 4 inches.
2. If your "nozzle" does not reach the ground rod, attach the included RED grounding wire to the grounding rod.
3. If it is necessary to use a tree to lean on, then attach the BLACK lead to the tree and the other end to the ground rod.
4. Last and most important, attach the other end of the RED ground wire to your "nozzle"

Now the droplets falling to a grounded surface will no longer pose a problem. I have included a picture of the kit in prototype form. I should have them ready for shipping soon.

http://s720.photobucket.com/albums/ww20 ... 140056.jpg

Well if you are a real stud, you can just flop it out on the ground and don't need all of that hardware.

"Well if you are a real stud, you can just flop it out on the ground and don't need all of that hardware."

That's exactly why the Marketing Department told me to sell them here!

watched a lad last fall drain the fuel tanks of his plane from the gascolator into a plastic jerrycan. The weather was poor and he was in a hanger (doors open). I was a newly a minted pilot, and thought nothing of it; chewed the fat for a while. What a stupid and dangerous situation the whole thing was. now, I do suppose the gascolator would have been the right choice, apposed to the wing drain, less distance to fall, and he did have the doors open, but should not have been in the hanger(s) in the first place. and as for the plastic jerrycan... - But now I know. Thanks BCP.

For James and I and others who are going north this summer. Can you still purchase the non-CARB compliant plastic Scepter or metal Wedco NATO style cans in Canada?