MTV states: 'Fuel won't blow up unless it's contained somehow, to build up pressure. You've been watching too much television '

Hey, congratulations MTV, I have never seen you this wrong before! Wow!

How about that BIG bomb the U.S. used in Iraq where they essentially make a Gas Vapor cloud (read LARGE) and ignite it?
The Brit SAS boys (commandos)that were a few miles away thought the U.S. had gone 'nuclear'.
Rather 'un-contained' was the picture I got. Felt like an 'explosion' to them. Shock wave and all.

Yes, OK, true, MTV, I wasn't there, but that is the most dramatic example I can think of.

I guess it probably comes down to definition of 'explosion'. It might just be a hellaciously fast burn rate masqueradeing as an explosion.

Hey Zane, this add came up when I was on this thread. Are these products BCP endorsed

http://www.jcwhitney.com/gas-cans-funne ... gwodQA6BOA

If you do not like the CARB fuel containers, simply buy the blue ones.

Tim

Littlecub,

It may be semantics, but bear in mind that gunpowder, for example, when ignited in a cartridge, doesn't actually explode, but rather it burns in a predictable and progressive manner. Same goes for fuel.

Even in your example.

MTV

MTV, I was conceding some on semantics (hellaciously fast burn rate.......) in my post, but these gas vapor bombs have a SHOCK WAVE. When used in 'nam they cleared forests of trees....
What would your definition of an 'explosion' be? It requires 'containment'? or does it really not exist-like 'grounding' for static electricity?

In my poor little pea brain, that picture sorta fits well into my definition of 'explosion'.
Sorry, MTV, you just can't educate some people.

Meanwhile, back at the Ranch.......

Bear, er, bare, er, keep in mind that static electricity, fire, AND 'explosions' are a very real risk that we assume-especially while hand refueling our precious aircraft with our even more precious bodies.The risk goes up drastically the drier the air, so act accordingly.

I, too, have a multiple series of rituals and incantations to the Gods of electrons and hydrocarbons to minimize their wrath.
I won't go into details, the mysteries of many such efforts, when exposed to the learned, incite ridicule.
In another life I was a fireman, and static electricity and gasoline is/are truly a BAD combination.
Take all the precautions you can.
And most of all-FLY safe!

LC

Can you still purchase the non-CARB compliant plastic Scepter or metal Wedco NATO style cans in Canada?

The Sceptre cans are not for sale in the USA due to some EPA rule.

Have a look here: http://www.sceptermilitary.com/fuel_con ... tributors/ I got some cans delivered to a friend at Langley BC and flew in to pick them up.

I read the whole thread (believe it or not) and I now know more about static and plastic cans than I care to. I'm left with three questions.

1) Does it "lower" my risk of static problems if I transfer from the plastic can to a steel can on the ground and then pour from the steel can to the airplane?

2) What role does a plastic funnel (if any) play if I'm pouring from a steel can? What if I "bond" the steel can to the airplane?

3) If I pressurize the steel can, leave it on the ground and use a fuel grade hose to transfer the pressurized fluid, does that create static in the rubber hose?

EXCELLENT THREAD BTW

Has anybody else noted that the Times Square would be bomber used plastic fuel jugs?? When I saw that I thought of this thread

I about fell out of my chair laughing when I saw the picture of the pee grounding kit.

I have a hard time with all the doom and gloom about plastic cans. I use them all the time for everything from trucks to lawn mowers. I would even argue that there is probably one in at least half the homes in America being used by people that are not the least bit careful with them.
I am not deputing the fact that they can cause a fire with static electricity, I just think the Danger is being over stated based on my experience with them.

Lostupnorth, I am no expert but I'll take a stab at it. I think there is problems with #1 & #3.

#1 If you pull the plastic can out of your truck it might have a positive charge since the truck is sitting on rubber tires. When you pour it into the grounded steel can you could get a spark. Also when you take the steel can (which has been grounded) and pour it into the plane, it could spark too since the plane is not grounded and could have a positive charge since it sits on rubber tires too.

#3 I belive the fuel hose is conductive so if you have the grounded steel can on the ground, it could spark when it comes into contact with your plane.

#2 This would work but when you make the connection between the can and plane, make sure it is not near either the filler on the plane or the opening on the gas can. It could spark. Never figured out how a plastic funnel could do anything except keep you from spilling.

I have never noticed how many times I get shocked until I started reading this thread!

Blu, If you want to order your Outdoor Peeing Kit they are on sale today for the First Annual Cinco De Mayo Sale!!!

Yes I would like to order, but do you have a little heavier duty model? I wouldn't want the clamp slipping off my nozzle while in use.

I think I might have an old rusty Beartrap around here somewhere you could use as an adapter.

What if the Mr. Funnel company would make a gas can out their special conductive plastic?

Better yet, what if someone in Canada made a functional gas can out of Mr. Funnel material?

Seriously- would that address this problem?

It might, but frankly nobody with any smarts or who lives on this continent is dumb enough to build a GASOLINE can and sell it to the public. First nit wit that becomes a crispy critter because he/she did something stupid that can was never intended for, that company gets sued down to parade rest.

Look at the ACTUAL gasoline containers out there--ones not made in China and sold by Wal Mart. They are very complex, have a special pour spout, etc, etc. Which all means $$.

Finally, put an ohmeter across a Mr. Funnel. I'm not totally convinced that material is as conductive as they suggest, but maybe.

I think Aluminum is a better choice, and a friend built four aluminum cans for his float lockers a while back. They are works of art, and conductive.

MTV

Here is a link to the Mr. Funnel Site. I couldn't see anything about their product being conductive and it actually says "Static electricity can ignite fuel and its vapors. Properly ground funnel".
http://www.mrfunnel.com/Mr._Funnel/Home.html

The problem is that the gasoline itself can store an electrical charge or create a charge as it travels through the atmosphere. If the funnel was conductive, the problem would still exists since the funnel would have the same positive or negative charge as whatever it is in contact with.

When I fill my plane now, I set the plastic cans on the wing and make sure they are sitting on some unpainted screws. I wipe the cans down with a damp rag before I put them on the wing. Then I touch everything, the plane, the can and actually the gas in the can. I put my finger over the spout opening while I tip the cans over.

Last week while I was doing my preflight, I got shocked when I opened the engine door to check my oil. It was after a storm. I must have had the positive charge since I was wearing shoes with rubber soles and the plane was on metal tiedowns. I did fill it before flight but I was really careful to set the cans on the ground for a while (because the plane was grounded) and then on the wing while I wiped the cans down. I wish more airports sold Mogas and that would fix this problem.

I stand corrected. The Black Mr. Funnels are supposed to be conductive and they are the only ones that can be grounded. If you ground the funnel, you need to ground the plane and gas can also. Maybe yourself too!

Jerry,

One more time: The trick is NOT about GROUNDING. You need to BOND the fueling source to the airframe. The airplane, unless it's a seaplane is isolated from ground by the tires. When you fuel from a certified source, you roll out the BONDING cable, and connect the fueling source to the airframe. Now that fueling source may also be grounded, but that really isn't necessary, and it doesn't deal with the problem we face in fueling an airplane.

MTV

MTV, I do understand that. I was referring to the quote from the Mr. Funnel site that said the Funnel could be grounded. I said "If you ground the funnel, you need to ground the plane and gas can also". I am pretty sure that would "bond" everything together.

MTV,
BOND, BOND, BOND, bond, bond.
Are you trying to wear us down, or did you and James (007) have a illicit fling in the 60's you haven't recovered from?

LC

This guy has a few new Scepter cans and spouts left from a failed company he bought out. I'm sure they won't last long.

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