BirdyinBOI wrote:I know I’m WAY late to this thread but I thought I'd post my thoughts in case anyone would like to respond, I’m a fairly low time pilot...less than 1000 hrs...and have limited BC experience but lived on a 2000’ grass runway back in the 80’s. Never had a problem with that in a friend’s stock C180. Never had any trouble getting down or making really nice 3-point landings. I could peg the A/S on final at 60 mph and the airplane was rock solid. Touchdown was at around 55 mph. I had a long stint of no flying and then purchased my 1958 182 in June 2018. I had never flown an airplane with “STOL anything”. This plane has a Horton STOL, flap gap seals and VG’s. It was owned by a rocket scientist who worked at JPL in Pasadena. I figured he had thoroughly researched the STOL mods before installing. That was back in the early 80’s however and we’ve probably learned some things since then. I flew the plane from SoCal back up to Boise and didn’t notice any negative characteristics except that it felt heavy on the ailerons. I have about 40 hours on the plane now and have some new opinions about the way it flies. I don’t think it comes down as quick as the 180 did, even with full flaps. My landings are some of the worst I’ve made in 45 years of flying...not terrible, just not great. I fly the final at 65-70 and try to touchdown around 60 with a little power. But at 60 when the plane gets in ground effect it just wants to float, unless fully loaded. Won’t come out of ground effect until around 50. The airplane is not nearly as stable on final at 60 mph as the 180 was. I could blame my poor landings on there not being enough of them but landings were always something that we’re easy for me.

After all my reading on the subject of flap gap seals, I’d like to place some blame there. It sounds like my slow speed/landing performance would improve if I removed them. Living in Idaho, I’d gladly exchange some cruise performance for better short field/rapid descent performance. My first trip into Johnson Creek last year looked like it was going to be no problem until on base to final I just couldn’t get airplane to come down fast enough, necessitating a go-around. The second attempt was successful but a little faster airspeed than I would have preferred. Removing the flap seals won’t be easy as they are riveted on. Still considering but leaning toward removal.

pilot wrote:...it seems like the flap gap seals may hinder flap performance enough for the very experienced pilots operating on the lower edge of the envelope to notice

lesuther wrote:There will always be folks whose appreciation for the gamification of aviating makes these things perceptible and interesting.

Otherwise, it is a distinction without a difference as far as the low end of the airspeed dial is concerned.

Cary wrote:Or to put it in real world terms, just about no detectable difference, which is pretty much what I experienced when I had the Knots 2 U flap gap seals installed many years ago (hard to believe that this thread is 8+ years old!). The increase in cruise speed was what I wanted and what I got, along with a noticeable increase in climb rate, without any noticeable change in landing or take off performance. My P172D's wing is stock, except for really droopy tips, which in my experience with umpty-ump 172s makes for somewhat more solid handling at slow speeds, doesn't reduce the stall speeds by any discernible amount, but makes the "break" more like a "mush".

Cary

Canalguna wrote:

Cary wrote:Or to put it in real world terms, just about no detectable difference, which is pretty much what I experienced when I had the Knots 2 U flap gap seals installed many years ago (hard to believe that this thread is 8+ years old!). The increase in cruise speed was what I wanted and what I got, along with a noticeable increase in climb rate, without any noticeable change in landing or take off performance. My P172D's wing is stock, except for really droopy tips, which in my experience with umpty-ump 172s makes for somewhat more solid handling at slow speeds, doesn't reduce the stall speeds by any discernible amount, but makes the "break" more like a "mush".

Cary

I'm evaluating Knots2U seals as well for my tu206g, and mine being a heavy Amphibian I'm looking forward an increased rate of climb, and a couple more knots would be very welcome as well. Won't be needing any tight-spot performance and I already have the Robertson with very nice low speed handling. My plane cries drag, so anything that helps is welcome I guess

Quickdraw1 wrote:So on the flip side of that is for the pilot that wants low and slow, flap gap seals are a disaster no matter what stol kit you have.