Hi,

Not wanting to hijack the G5 thread, and given the proximity to certification of the AV-30, I thought this would be a ripening topic for discussion.

I got here in a roundabout way. Have an inop enroute Garmin155 TSO in my panel. My Nav and the Garmin could be selected to drive my Century 2000 Autopilot. So, I thought to replace the 155 with the new Garmin 175. So far so good. Can the 175 drive my autopilot? Maybe for simple headings but apparently I need a GPSS steering module for the Century to fly approach elements like procedure turns using the Autopilot.

Have been talking to 3 avionics shops plus a helpful IA on the BeechTalk list.

The GPSS module for the Century is $3,567 + installation! Pretty pricey.

A suggestion has been made that for less $$$, I can install a G5 in HSI mode (replacing current vacuum driven HSI) and this will interface to the Garmin 175 and also provide GPSS steering to my autopilot.

It seems to me that the AVC can do the same thing, plus others. Thus, the interest.

I could also replace the AI with a G5 or AVC-30 and get rid of my vacuum system. Is my thinking on all this correct or merely wishful?

I don’t fly IFR that often and now I can only do ILS, Localizer and VOR approaches. Say I fly from California to the east coast. I checked a number of airports that I might fly to and they all had these types of approaches. So the 175 would add some RNAV possibilities. I have WAAS GPS as part of my Appareo ADSB In/out setup. My current equipment designation is /A as I have DME. Have been told that this will work for filing direct, say LA to Wichita. ATC asks if I am GPS enabled, I respond Yes, and usually says Ok.

Not clear to me what my equipment / designator would be if I installed only the G175?

Debating whether to just get the Garmin 175 now or wait till next year and get it along with two G5’s or AVC-30s? I am sure that I could work around any IFR challenges with current equipment even if I have to do a bunch of VORs in sequence for XC.

Any comments appreciated.

Best,

Tom

The last time I looked the certified AV-30 was half the price of a G5. I chatting with AeroVonics the AV-30 has been engineered to be compatible with most if not all "fixed" GPS navigation devices and many of portable ones as well.

If you'd like to play a bit AeroVonics has downloadable "simulator" for the AV-30 0n their website.

From what I've been told, the G5 has to ha e it's own WAAS antenna, it can't be sourced from another GPS. Is this still true or have they changed this?
To me this gives another vote to the AV 30. Same with the G5 in DG mode, you need the GMU11 added, where as the AV30 or a RCA unit is all internal. I'm leaning more towards the AV30 for my attitude indicator and I already have a RCA unit for my DG.

I'm planning two AV-30's this Winter but my bird is on an OM C of A

I am awaiting the AV-30, too. First off, the G5 was never a consideration for me. I am no Garmin fan boy. Given my great desire to yank the vacuum system, it has always been a choice between the Aspen and the AV-30. So, $5K vs half that. I will wait for the AV-30 to come out.

I’ve had some great conversations with the folks at AeroVonics, I do believe their AV-30 will be well worth the wait.

A look at my sorry bank account with Estimated Taxes near due makes me think it is worth waiting too. Please keep up the feedback and any inside news.

Best,

Tom

TommyN wrote:A look at my sorry bank account with Estimated Taxes near due makes me think it is worth waiting too. Please keep up the feedback and any inside news.

Best,

Tom

I don't have any inside news, but I did sign up for email updates straight from the horse's mouth on the Aerovonics website.

After talking to several electronics techs and studying all the options and costs, I have come to the conclusion that it is not a good move to try to integrate new avionics into old. The integration details are a bit undefined and you get conflicting advice.

In my case, I will leave my Bendix King equipment which is Nav interfaced to my Century 2000 Autopilot as it is. I can do ILS, Localizer and VOR DME approaches.

In 2020, I will add the Garmin GPS 175 but only interface it to an Aerovonics AV-30 which will fill the hole at top right of panel. I will keep this independent from the rest but as the AV-30 improves will try to couple to autopilot.

I like the fact that I can cycle between the following on the AV-30: AI (as backup), HSI for GPS Approaches and AOA for low and slow. That along with current panel is best of all worlds.

As older items fail will buy new to interface with the new.

Well that’s my strategy and I’m sticking with it.

Best,

Tom

I really like the looks of the AV-30, and I'm rooting strongly for them to succeed, but I am still a bit hesitant... First of all, so many things are still "pending", more than a year after they first showed it to us at OSH last year, and announced it was "coming soon..." So it was really good to see them releasing the experimental AV-30E (available now), and a "best guess" timeline for delivery of the AV-30C ("late 2019"). That's a "best guess" because they're having to deal with the FAA, and who knows how long that will take (especially if your name is not Garmin...).

The "HSI" software for the "certified" AV-30C won't be available until mid 2020 – if they are able to keep to their schedule and the FAA doesn't throw a monkey wrench into the operation:

• AV-30C $1595 (estimated availability "late 2019")
• APA-MINI $300 (estimated availability "early 2020") for those with STEC autopilots
• APA-10 $799 (estimated availability "late 2020") for all the "other" autopilots

So, by the time you get your AV-30C and upgrade it with the APA-10, the cost will be about $2400, which is pretty much the same as the "certified" version of the G5 and the external battery backup (already built into the AV-30C).

AeroVonics' web site FAQ section for the AV-30 answers some questions, but raises some as well... It's still unknown whether two AV-30s will be able to share a single APA-10 unit, or whether each would require one. If both have to have it for "certification" purposes, adding a second AV-30C to replace the DG/RMI/HSI would cost the same $2400...

The FAQ also states that the "DG mode" of the AV-30 is NOT a full-blown HSI, but that the APA-10 unit will add much of that capability to the system. (Much? But not all? What is / is not included?) It also appears that the AV-30 does not interface with NMEA outputs (Garmin Aera and most other handheld GPS), but that this may be included ina future software update. And with no magnetometer option, you either have to keep re-aligning the "gyro" heading with magnetic, or have it slaved to GPS (true) headings, which can result in confusion with ATC directives, etc.

As for GPSS, here's the FAQ response: "We are also looking at GPSS capability, again available as an update after initial product certification. The GPSS capability utilizes the GPS data to automatically set the heading bug for more sophisticated course-intercept capabilities, smoothing transitions between flight plan legs."

But is that included in the APA-10 add-on? I strongly suspect it is not, else they probably would have stated it that way...

The net impact of all of this is that I will remain a keenly interested observer until I see a little more from them. The AV-30 is a nice unit, but it's got some pretty stiff competition already out there... Especially in the experimental world, where there are excellent 3½-inch "Mini" EFIS systems available from GRT, MGL, and AvMap that offer a whole lot more capability for somewhat lower cost.

Jim,

I largely agree with your assessment. But as my strategy supplements rather than replaces, it still seems like a good way to go in 2020. I like the three options in a single AV-30.

With regards to full HSI, the definition is really tied to the system in which it is used. So I believe this is the reason for their statement.

I had a good conversation with the Aerovonics CEO a while back. He was very open and receptive. Gave me confidence that they will come through..

Best,

Tom

Hmm, I've had a couple of very good conversations with Jeff and he clearly stated to me the exact opposite to this,

"It also appears that the AV-30 does not interface with NMEA outputs (Garmin Aera and most other handheld GPS)"

In fact he was very clear it would interface seamlessly with any device that offered an NMEA output, fixed or portable. I kind of "drank the Koolaid" on the AV-30, in fact my planned upgrade focuses around installing two of them, maybe I need to rethink it some more !!!!

Well, I guess we could use an update? Anyone know the next trade show where we could play with an AV-30 and ask questions? Anyone have an AV-30E within 100 NM of KCMA. I’d like to visit.
Best,
Tom

JP256 wrote:I really like the looks of the AV-30, and I'm rooting strongly for them to succeed, but I am still a bit hesitant... First of all, so many things are still "pending", more than a year after they first showed it to us at OSH last year, and announced it was "coming soon..." So it was really good to see them releasing the experimental AV-30E (available now), and a "best guess" timeline for delivery of the AV-30C ("late 2019"). That's a "best guess" because they're having to deal with the FAA, and who knows how long that will take (especially if your name is not Garmin...).

The "HSI" software for the "certified" AV-30C won't be available until mid 2020 – if they are able to keep to their schedule and the FAA doesn't throw a monkey wrench into the operation:

• AV-30C $1595 (estimated availability "late 2019")
• APA-MINI $300 (estimated availability "early 2020") for those with STEC autopilots
• APA-10 $799 (estimated availability "late 2020") for all the "other" autopilots

So, by the time you get your AV-30C and upgrade it with the APA-10, the cost will be about $2400, which is pretty much the same as the "certified" version of the G5 and the external battery backup (already built into the AV-30C).

AeroVonics' web site FAQ section for the AV-30 answers some questions, but raises some as well... It's still unknown whether two AV-30s will be able to share a single APA-10 unit, or whether each would require one. If both have to have it for "certification" purposes, adding a second AV-30C to replace the DG/RMI/HSI would cost the same $2400...

The FAQ also states that the "DG mode" of the AV-30 is NOT a full-blown HSI, but that the APA-10 unit will add much of that capability to the system. (Much? But not all? What is / is not included?) It also appears that the AV-30 does not interface with NMEA outputs (Garmin Aera and most other handheld GPS), but that this may be included ina future software update. And with no magnetometer option, you either have to keep re-aligning the "gyro" heading with magnetic, or have it slaved to GPS (true) headings, which can result in confusion with ATC directives, etc.

As for GPSS, here's the FAQ response: "We are also looking at GPSS capability, again available as an update after initial product certification. The GPSS capability utilizes the GPS data to automatically set the heading bug for more sophisticated course-intercept capabilities, smoothing transitions between flight plan legs."

But is that included in the APA-10 add-on? I strongly suspect it is not, else they probably would have stated it that way...

The net impact of all of this is that I will remain a keenly interested observer until I see a little more from them. The AV-30 is a nice unit, but it's got some pretty stiff competition already out there... Especially in the experimental world, where there are excellent 3½-inch "Mini" EFIS systems available from GRT, MGL, and AvMap that offer a whole lot more capability for somewhat lower cost.

With your list of requirements, why not just get an Aspen and call it a day? Where the Aerovonics shines is for guys like me that just want a one-for-one replacement for the AI and DG in order to yank the vacuum system. I hate Garmin stuff, so will not consider the G5. Aerovonics appears to have a perfect solution for me, unfortunately, their success depends upon the agency that has deliberately destroyed general aviation, the faa.

I too have seriously considered a pair of the AV-30's to go into my 182. I like the form factor and the function. Mostly I like the fact that it's not a high priced Garmin device. I can not get an answer if the software updates are field updates or if the unit needs to be returned to the manufacturer. Not sure it's a big deal because I'm not removing the compass; but with out the magnetometer, the company states that it has to be corrected for precession from time to time. I see that the magnetometer is in the works, but at what cost? I will most likely be using it in conjunction with a trig or a trutrack autopilot at some point. I am (im)patiently awaiting STC and sales release. I'm not comfortable giving them a pre-order deposit based on a strong partnership between the manufacturer and the Federal government for the STC to be issued. At the end of the day, it's probably worth the wait, unless Garmin or Aspen offers a 25% end of the year discount (ha ha).

For those who can go with the "experimental" AV-30 AeroVonic's is now offering a further 13% discount and free shipping. Maybe this is the "distance" being created between the experimental and certified versions.

C180_guy wrote:With your list of requirements, why not just get an Aspen and call it a day? Where the Aerovonics shines is for guys like me that just want a one-for-one replacement for the AI and DG in order to yank the vacuum system. I hate Garmin stuff, so will not consider the G5. Aerovonics appears to have a perfect solution for me, unfortunately, their success depends upon the agency that has deliberately destroyed general aviation, the faa.

Well, I'm not a big fan of the Aspen stuff, and neither is my local avionics guy. He showed me his records on the number of installations, versus the number of warranty claim transactions, comparing Garmin and Aspen. The difference was pretty startling - about 4 times higher percentage of claims versus Garmin. He says that Aspen is great about honoring their warranties, but the down time can be brutal when you have to ship the units back and forth.

Add to that the fact that the Aspens I've seen in my friends' cockpits appear to be a lot slower updating the screen (lagging behind) than the current-generation experimental stuff, and the screen resolution seems to be a bit lower as well. It's almost like a 5-year-old laptop compared to a state-of-the-art system with a faster processor and higher-density display...

But since I'm experimental (at least for the Bearhawk Patrol I'm building), I'm probably going to go with one of the GRT Sport EX 7" EFIS. For about the same cost as the Aspen, you can get the EFIS, their engine monitor solution, and a LOT more additional functionality. I'm still considering an AV-30 as the backup – a low-cost system with a completely independent software and hardware base. Not quite as full-function as a second GRT (mini?), but I like the idea of having completely different architectures for the backup devices. (Thus my iPad with ForeFlight and FlyQ will also remain in the cockpit.)

GRT Mini-GA vs G5 vs AV-30 vs Dynon D3

Zooming in/out using a ruler on the screen. Pretty close to actual size comparison.


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I think I’ll “roll the dice” on the AV-30 I feel it’s the right choice for my needs and wants, wish me luck

Good luck!

I find I’m leaning more towards the GRT Mini-GA EFIS with the air data module covertly plumbed into my pitot-static system.... although I won’t get AOA... I wonder how well it’s going to work on the AV-30?

I think a lot will depend on how their approval goes. Will I be able to pull the vacuum AI once this goes in? (Something I cant do with the Mini-GA).


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