My insurance (Old Republic) went up about $35 this year (~3%), but that included increasing the hull value from $42K to $45K. I'm a Commercial ASEL pilot (Commercial Instrument Helicopter) got just over 1,950 hours, with about 1,500 of that in helicopters. I went from "zero" time to 50 hours in type/model (RANS S-6ES tricycle gear). Liability went down a few $$, but the increased hull value made up for it, plus a few bucks...

Other underwriter quotes would have been an additional $700 to $1200 (or ~70-120% increase). We stuck with Old Republic. Last time I got a quote from Avemco (two years ago, for a '65 Champion 7ECA with a hull value of only $22K), they quoted $2100, versus the $757 I was quoted by Old Republic... That "3X other best quote" seems to be the rule of thumb for Avemco, as they made the same type quotes for a Grumman Traveler and a Commander 114 that I previously owned. I kept falling for their "let us quote you a lower rate than you're currently paying" postcard... Yeah, right!

My 185 at $180k hull value was slightly more than my Cirrus at $750k hull value if that says anything about tail draggers.

Ross4289 wrote:My 185 at $180k hull value was slightly more than my Cirrus at $750k hull value if that says anything about tail draggers.

That an parachutes maybe? Lol.

This reminds me of being a brand new paramedic when I was younger. Every job required minimum experience. And it was like "How the hell am I going to get experience then". It's a chicken or the egg conundrum for me. It seems like Avemco allows entry into that world at an extremely high premium. Or be born into a family with airplanes/lots o money.

Actually Avemco came in about double what my broker did, but I have a ton of Cirrus time and little tailwheel time which I assume is the real reason. Paying about $4,800 for the 185 on wheels/straight floats. I hope it gets better next year when I have more time in the 185.

dwill wrote: "How the hell am I going to get experience then".

In a high performance tailwheel? Simple, start with not a high performance tailwheel. Underwriters are in the business of numbers. 100hr Maule pilots are the reason insurance for 100hr Maule pilots is where it is at.

Old republic went down 20% on the Scout. I believe AIG is on the Cub and it is under 1k with 45 hull value. 200 hrs/yr tailwheel time. A little over 500 tailwheel total with 2000+ other.
Tried to buy an experimental amphib and couldn’t find hull at any price. Wait till next year.

Kaptain_K wrote:

dwill wrote: "How the hell am I going to get experience then".

In a high performance tailwheel? Simple, start with not a high performance tailwheel. Underwriters are in the business of numbers. 100hr Maule pilots are the reason insurance for 100hr Maule pilots is where it is at.

Probably the truest statement I don't want to hear. It's great point though omand one that lingers in the back of my mind as the voice of reason.

Dwill, I've been reading this post and your "which maule" post, & have a few thoughts.
1) waiting for the market to come down: probably not gonna happen,
unless we get another 9/11 event which grounds a lot of people for quite a while.
2) insurance costs: in between inflation & more accidents, probably not gonna come down either.
Not too surprising-- what is coming down? Have you priced cars lately? Or houses?
3) what $ are you seeing in insurance quotes?
You're talking about buying an airplane that's gonna cost you somewhere around $80 or 90K to buy,
and will likely cost you $80 or $90 an hour to operate, not including insurance.
100 hours a year = $8 or 9K, is an extra thousand for insurance really a deal killer?
I don't like paying a lot for insurance either, or for anything else for that matter,
but that's just the nature of the beast.
You can buck up and pay it, or go without, or continue to sit on the sidelines-- your choice.

In my first year of ownership as a student pilot, my rate for a '60 182 with a $65k hull value was $1,680.

A year later, 150 hrs TT the rate for the $65k hull value was $1,830 and $90k hull value was $2,138.

Four digits, like everything else in aviation.....

Sad to report this as I’ve had good terms w/BWI in years past:

If you use BWI, suggest you deal with Matt White directly and only with him. His staff has executed major blunders with my policy and with quotes, interpreting policies wrong, inaccurately conveying info to insurers/not advocating for the client, and not understanding the market drivers. They are simply salespersons/intermediaries, after all. They’ve gone through numerous staff at their AK office.
One of the pleasures of dealing with AVEMCO is talking directly w/an underwriter.

hotrod180 wrote:Dwill, I've been reading this post and your "which maule" post, & have a few thoughts.
1) waiting for the market to come down: probably not gonna happen,
unless we get another 9/11 event which grounds a lot of people for quite a while.
2) insurance costs: in between inflation & more accidents, probably not gonna come down either.
Not too surprising-- what is coming down? Have you priced cars lately? Or houses?
3) what $ are you seeing in insurance quotes?
You're talking about buying an airplane that's gonna cost you somewhere around $80 or 90K to buy,
and will likely cost you $80 or $90 an hour to operate, not including insurance.
100 hours a year = $8 or 9K, is an extra thousand for insurance really a deal killer?
I don't like paying a lot for insurance either, or for anything else for that matter,
but that's just the nature of the beast.
You can buck up and pay it, or go without, or continue to sit on the sidelines-- your choice.

This is kind of where I'm at. It's like waiting to buy a stock at the right time. Warren Buffett says just by the damn stock if you like it.

I've waited for a market correction for over 3 years and I really don't think one is coming. I remember seeing 180's for 90k like it was yesterday. While the Avemco quote and flip flop was really annoying, At least with my lower time they will still let me enter the market and start building some time in a plane that I want.

I did some more time last week and met some benchmarks They said would make a big difference. Guess what, they made zero difference. I've honestly called once a day just to see if I can get a different quote from a different underwriter since it seems so arbitrary with them.

My quote this week for renewal is $750-$1320 for $2,000,000 liability depending on the insurer.

Hull is running 1.72%-2.2% of market value.

185 wheels, skis, and amphibs. 600 hours experience in this airplane over 6 years.

Hull value $330K.

This is Canadian dollars. Multiply by .83 for US dollars.

I’ll likely take the quote with the high liability rate and the lowest hull rate.

Pinecone wrote:My quote this week for renewal is $750-$1320 for $2,000,000 liability depending on the insurer.

Hull is running 1.72%-2.2% of market value.

185 wheels, skis, and amphibs. 600 hours experience in this airplane over 6 years.

Hull value $330K.

This is Canadian dollars. Multiply by .83 for US dollars.

I’ll likely take the quote with the high liability rate and the lowest hull rate.

That's good, who do you source your insurance thru Pinecone ?

Good? Not really. It all adds up to 7K when you do the math. Or as Jerry Reed used to sing, it all adds up to more than this cowboy makes!

$1320 + ($330,000 x 0.0172) = $6,996 CAD.

$5780 USD. On a $275, 000 USD hull.

Pinecone wrote:Good? Not really. It all adds up to 7K when you do the math. Or as Jerry Reed used to sing, it all adds up to more than this cowboy makes!

$1320 + ($330,000 x 0.0172) = $6,996 CAD.

$5780 USD. On a $275, 000 USD hull.

Who do you use Daryl?

dwill wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:Dwill, I've been reading this post and your "which maule" post, & have a few thoughts.
1) waiting for the market to come down: probably not gonna happen,
unless we get another 9/11 event which grounds a lot of people for quite a while.
2) insurance costs: in between inflation & more accidents, probably not gonna come down either.
Not too surprising-- what is coming down? Have you priced cars lately? Or houses?
3) what $ are you seeing in insurance quotes?
You're talking about buying an airplane that's gonna cost you somewhere around $80 or 90K to buy,
and will likely cost you $80 or $90 an hour to operate, not including insurance.
100 hours a year = $8 or 9K, is an extra thousand for insurance really a deal killer?
I don't like paying a lot for insurance either, or for anything else for that matter,
but that's just the nature of the beast.
You can buck up and pay it, or go without, or continue to sit on the sidelines-- your choice.

This is kind of where I'm at. It's like waiting to buy a stock at the right time. Warren Buffett says just by the damn stock if you like it.

I've waited for a market correction for over 3 years and I really don't think one is coming. I remember seeing 180's for 90k like it was yesterday. While the Avemco quote and flip flop was really annoying, At least with my lower time they will still let me enter the market and start building some time in a plane that I want.

I did some more time last week and met some benchmarks They said would make a big difference. Guess what, they made zero difference. I've honestly called once a day just to see if I can get a different quote from a different underwriter since it seems so arbitrary with them.

It used to be the case that once you got a quote from a broker, you were “represented” by that broker until you officially severed your relationship with them. That was to prevent people coming in once a week from a different broker, asking essentially the same questions.

Let me ask you this: Whatever YOUR business is, what would you think if a prospective customer repetitively called wanting a “better” deal?

Figure out the airplane you want, but it, THEN call for insurance. By now, you surely have a pretty good idea of what it’ll cost.

Or, just continue to be an internet troll…..

MTV

You got to pay to play.

Pinecone wrote:Good? Not really. It all adds up to 7K when you do the math. Or as Jerry Reed used to sing, it all adds up to more than this cowboy makes!

$1320 + ($330,000 x 0.0172) = $6,996 CAD.

$5780 USD. On a $275, 000 USD hull.

I misunderstood; I didn't realized you hadn't included the hull value in the $1320, no wonder it seem to good to be true.

Mapleflt wrote:

Pinecone wrote:Good? Not really. It all adds up to 7K when you do the math. Or as Jerry Reed used to sing, it all adds up to more than this cowboy makes!

$1320 + ($330,000 x 0.0172) = $6,996 CAD.

$5780 USD. On a $275, 000 USD hull.

I misunderstood; I didn't realized you hadn't included the hull value in the $1320, no wonder it seem to good to be true.

FWIW, I just got quoted $3188 for my 206 valued at 140k. 120hrs in type now, 940TT. Down $40 and I increased my hull value 20k. $1000 deductible.

Agree with comments by others....insurance is a Global Market...we think aircraft but the reality is our activity is part of a very very large pool of risks....we enjoyed several years of lower costs...now it trues up...

Here’s my issue...I am approaching age 69...I changed carriers this year on my Brokers advice to Global because they more tolerant of Aged Aviators...seems most carriers look less than favorably on older pilots ...especially those who fly with Basic Med....and generally decline to quote those over 70.....

I just logged 50 years of safe flying, 2000 hours Private with Instrument....and no claims....

Are there other Aged Aviators heading the same....strategy...? Flying without at least liability coverage is unattractive......