A couple of days ago I had someone ask me a interesting question, since I was the only "plane guy" he knew. He asked me if float or sea planes are subject to inspection for waterborne invasive species. I replied I have no idea. He has a house on a private lake and the homeowners association has brought up the possibility of banning float planes if they are not inspected. I think they get a handful of planes a year that land to visit friends. Some back story. Here in the Adirondacks almost every larger body of water has boat inspection/cleaning stations at public access points to mitigate the spread of invasive species -both flora & fauna. Even our canoes get inspected if we deliver them to a body of water that has a station. If the boat is considered contaminated it then goes through a cleaning process (No charge) or is not allowed on the water. There are gaps of course - private docks, ect., but it is a fairly comprehensive program. I hadn't even thought about planes until the other day. Do any of you have any programs like this for float planes? I could see this as a huge pain in the ass with nearly impossible logistics if you have a sea or float plane. I can also see this potentially as a huge access problem.

Pete

Pete,

You have just touched on the issue that MAY be the end of straight floats at least in the lower 48 states.

Minnesota and Montana both have Programms similar to what you describe. But the problem with straight floats is, how do you inspect and decontaminate the floats?

You could haul the plane out of the lake on a trailer to inspect, but then what do you do if it turns out to be contaminated? Decontaminate it, and put it right back in the lake it just came out of? Which may be where it picked up the invasive......

The logical answer would be amphibious airplanes, but then does the State have to provide inspection/decontamination at airports?

Short version: At present, I doubt there is a practical way to inspect/decontaminate seaplanes.

There are plenty of commercial operators that run straight floats as well. This would or could be the death of their livelihood and quite possible an entire element of the aviation community and industry as a whole, YIKES

That subject came up in my float training this year. Seems Lake Powell and Lake Meade have made noise about it, but there is nobody to inspect. However, the National Park Service just move a 206H amphib from the Everglades to Lake Powell, since the Park Service seemed to have slagged the turbine of their Soloy 206 on floats. Wonder who inspected it when it entered the lake??

On the depressing note, the National Park Service, while moaning about their lack of funds, perpetually. Seemed to have bought every single option they could get from Wipaire and Cessna for their 206H aircraft, most of it totally un-necessary and totally Golden Lilly action going on there. They, by my calculations , ran the cost of the aircraft up by a cool quarter of a million. Seems hard to accept from what bills itself as the Hobo agency.

Seaplane Pilots Association offers an online course. It wouldn’t hurt to complete it, and carry a certificate. If you’re ever challenged by a lake resident or LE, at least you could demonstrate some competence and profess diligence.

Going to have to do something about all the birds that go from lake to lake , quit letting dirty humans swim where they want etc . Keep dogs out of the water. Big money grab. People and animals have been cross “contaminating bodies of water since time began . Anyway , someone said it before , just self certify online and keep the cert with you . Pretty sad around here that the lake basically has open for biz hrs at the boat ramp which is limiting of the come and go whenever you want thing .Freedoms are shrinking .

Thank's for brings up the birds low rider. 40 years ago when I got my degree in Fisheries Biology from Michigan State University we were taught that eggs and larvae were carried on the feet and feathers of waterfowl. One of the ways that fish species were introduced into bodies of water. Unfortunately I am sure that is "forgotten" by the individuals who set agency policy as it doesn't fit their agenda. Kind of makes it a mute subject if you can't control all of the methods.

Tim

No, it’s not moot because there are natural pathways. The whole deal with invasive species is to SLOW the spread of them. Stopping them completely is difficult at best.

But the hope is that if you can slow the spread, we may be able to develop treatments to stop them, which may be impossible once they’re well established.

I’m a firm believer that we need to do everything we can to at least slow the spread of these organisms.

MTV

Invasive aquatic Alaskan plants:

https://www.adn.com/opinions/2017/05/08 ... e-traffic/
http://plants.alaska.gov/invasives/pdf/ ... Pilots.pdf

This Elodea sp. is currently found in both contained and flowing waters. Currents, waterfowl, and human activity can spread the plant or segments to other locations. They test major floatplane bases regularly. Anchorage has them. Fairbanks not yet as far as I know.

As far as invasive fish like Northern Pike in some Alaskan locations, the eggs and sac fry are adhesive for 2-3 weeks soon after Spring spawning and can be transported with associated vegetation and perhaps without.

Gary

https://wise.wa.gov/invasivespecies/index.aspx

Here's Washington's list. Some are aquatic, most are plants. None are micro flora or fauna. Do we ever wonder about the number of unlisted invasives we have (invited and not) in our homes, yards, farms, and refrigerators?

What few discussions of invasives include is the affect of climate flux. Even before Al G discovered 'global' warming, a quick trip into paleo botany - or even the last 2000+ years of history - demonstrates warming & cooling cycles are not new. I used know a paleo ecologist who mapped three separate forest exansions & contractions in the Sierras of California. Climate was a smoking gun (hint: drought, bugs & finaly fire). Maybe "slowing" establisment of some invasives makes sense. But, that doesn't seem either economically or even physically possible for most. IMHO, we're already spending way too much money stamping on a few macro flora & fauna in futile attempts to "slow” 'em down.

mtv wrote:No, it’s not moot because there are natural pathways. The whole deal with invasive species is to SLOW the spread of them. Stopping them completely is difficult at best.

But the hope is that if you can slow the spread, we may be able to develop treatments to stop them, which may be impossible once they’re well established.

I’m a firm believer that we need to do everything we can to at least slow the spread of these organisms.

MTV

I completely agree.

I’d like to think that most float plane pilots are considerate individuals who wouldn’t knowingly spread invasive species. That they would do their part to keep the waterways they enjoy clean. Unfortunately that likely isn’t reality.

I take effort to clean my boats to ensure I’m not spreading invasive species. But I know people, even friends, that are decent intelligent people but they know their boats are contaminated so they plan their trips to pass through check stations when they are unmanned. It’s ridiculous.

People are selfish and because of that rules/laws/policies are necessary to deal with how one individuals actions will affect others. Unfortunately that usually means a few bad apples will ruin it for everyone.

PapernScissors wrote:https://wise.wa.gov/invasivespecies/index.aspx

Here's Washington's list. Some are aquatic, most are plants. None are micro flora or fauna. Do we ever wonder about the number of unlisted invasives we have (invited and not) in our homes, yards, farms, and refrigerators?

What few discussions of invasives include is the affect of climate flux. Even before Al G discovered 'global' warming, a quick trip into paleo botany - or even the last 2000+ years of history - demonstrates warming & cooling cycles are not new. I used know a paleo ecologist who mapped three separate forest exansions & contractions in the Sierras of California. Climate was a smoking gun (hint: drought, bugs & finaly fire). Maybe "slowing" establisment of some invasives makes sense. But, that doesn't seem either economically or even physically possible for most. IMHO, we're already spending way too much money stamping on a few macro flora & fauna in futile attempts to "slow” 'em down.

Let’s not try to tie the spread of things like elodea, Asian carp, zebra mussels, etc to global warming. Those are purely invasives, brought to this country by humans. Elodea was a popular aquarium plant, zebra mussels were thought to have arrived in the bilges of cargo ships, etc.

These are the nasty ones. Elodea and some other plants can choke a water body to the point where you can’t operate a boat, not to mention what that can do to all sorts of native plants and critters.

And, zebra mussel larvae have now been found in at least two Montana reservoirs.

Stopping those things is a worthy goal.

MTV

mtv wrote:

PapernScissors wrote:https://wise.wa.gov/invasivespecies/index.aspx

Here's Washington's list. Some are aquatic, most are plants. None are micro flora or fauna. Do we ever wonder about the number of unlisted invasives we have (invited and not) in our homes, yards, farms, and refrigerators?

What few discussions of invasives include is the affect of climate flux. Even before Al G discovered 'global' warming, a quick trip into paleo botany - or even the last 2000+ years of history - demonstrates warming & cooling cycles are not new. I used know a paleo ecologist who mapped three separate forest exansions & contractions in the Sierras of California. Climate was a smoking gun (hint: drought, bugs & finaly fire). Maybe "slowing" establisment of some invasives makes sense. But, that doesn't seem either economically or even physically possible for most. IMHO, we're already spending way too much money stamping on a few macro flora & fauna in futile attempts to "slow” 'em down.

Let’s not try to tie the spread of things like elodea, Asian carp, zebra mussels, etc to global warming. Those are purely invasives, brought to this country by humans. Elodea was a popular aquarium plant, zebra mussels were thought to have arrived in the bilges of cargo ships, etc.

These are the nasty ones. Elodea and some other plants can choke a water body to the point where you can’t operate a boat, not to mention what that can do to all sorts of native plants and critters.

And, zebra mussel larvae have now been found in at least two Montana reservoirs.

Stopping those things is a worthy goal.

MTV

^^ That +1

Here is how we addressed the concern as a sidebar to a feature story in Tahoe magazine this summer.

Pierre,

Unfortunately, not every float operator is following that advice.

MTV

Copy that Mike. I see it as two different issues. One is to continue to exert peer pressure (both one-to-one and through the SPA and this forum) within the ranks of seaplane operators to do the right thing. The other is to present to the general public that we have a process and don't need new government bans or restrictions at this time.

Out local SPA rep, Rob Lober, is doing a good job getting us favorable coverage and getting folks used to us being around. I took a top staffer from the Sierra Nevada Alliance (A local environmental NGO) up for a float plane ride and splash into Tahoe. I think she saw that what we do is safe and we are responsible operators. I encourage responsible float pilots everywhere to do similar outreach to agency folks, environmentalists, etc. in your area. Once they see that we are thoughtful, careful people, it helps defuse concerns.

Pierre

Keep up the good work! That’s the best approach for aviators.

MTV

I can certainly understand the concern that the homeowners association would have on a private lake.
States and local governing agencies are dealing with it in many different ways and I would hope for someone to give them other options than just banning float planes.
Here is a page on the seaplane pilots association for New York State. https://www.seaplanepilotsassociation.org/water-flying-community-information/new-york/ I recommend contacting the two SPA reps that are listed on the page.
Also I do not know what bodies of water are actually contaminated in your area. My policy is to know what is contaminated and not visit it or make plans that take decontamination into consideration. Possibly the association could only ban straight float planes from flying in from any contaminated water and require anphibs to stop on land and inspect before coming in?

Invasive species prevention has been an issue here in Colorado, which was the only state to absolutely prohibit seaplanes on any lakes under the auspices of the Department of Parks & Wildlife, and it was the biggest argument that the Parks & Wildlife folks have had each time we've attempted to get the Colorado legislature to require the opening of Colorado lakes and reservoirs to seaplanes. Although much of the water in Colorado is actually governed by the feds (NPS, NFS, or BLM), they've all bowed to the requirements of the DPW, effectively barring seaplanes from most of the lakes and reservoirs in the state.

So far, we've succeeded in persuading the owners of two privately owned reservoirs, Lake Meredith near Ordway and Kenney Reservoir near Rangely, to permit seaplanes, by conducting pre-splash-in inspections and decontamination at nearby airports, La Junta and Rangely respectively. Obviously that means only amphibs are able to use the two lakes.

I think there has been some progress, although still the Colorado legislature hasn't moved forward. The Fish & Wildlife folks have backed down from their intransigent "thou shalt not ever" position; they have had a hard time saying that our decontamination efforts, which they've watched, are insufficient. So it may happen eventually. I'm only a follower in this fight, although I've been at most of the hearings at the legislature and all of the splash-ins at one of the reservoirs.

I absolutely agree that minimizing invasive species is a laudable effort. I also think, however, that absolute prevention is not possible.

Cary

A couple invasive species issues near me.
The first one was intentional, they think-- somehow some eastern fish (gar? can't remember) got into a lake.
They ended up poisoning the lake & the creek which runs into/out of it--
got rid of the gar or whatever but also wiped out the trout plus a couple years worth of salmon runs.
(or what was left of them after the gar got through with them)
The second issue is some sort of European green crabs, coming over either hanging onto the hulls of ships or more likely in ballast water.
They are established near the mouth of the Dungeness river, home of the world famous Dungeness crab.
From a washington dept of fish & wildlife webpage:
"In areas where the crab have been able to establish reproducing populations they have had dramatic impacts on other species, particularly smaller shore crab, clams, and small oysters. While the crab cannot crack the shell of a mature oyster, it can prey upon young oysters, and will dig down six inches to find clams to eat. One green crab can consume 40 half-inch clams a day, as well as other crabs its own size."