Barnstormer wrote:A SQ-12 was practicing on the Knik yesterday.

Measured 12mph wind. Longest landing was 6 feet. Shortest was 2 feet. Takeoffs ranged between 5 feet and 10 feet. The pressure is on.

Wish I was up there with you guys. Have fun! Take lots of pictures and videos please.

His shortest T/O was 37' with a 46' LDG. Missed 1st place by 8'... Very impressive flying today!

TradeCraft wrote:

Barnstormer wrote:A SQ-12 was practicing on the Knik yesterday.

Measured 12mph wind. Longest landing was 6 feet. Shortest was 2 feet. Takeoffs ranged between 5 feet and 10 feet. The pressure is on.

Wish I was up there with you guys. Have fun! Take lots of pictures and videos please.

His shortest T/O was 37' with a 46' LDG. Missed 1st place by 8'... Very impressive flying today!

Do you have the rest of the results?

Unfortunately I don't. That was the last event and the only I remembered. I do know that one of the Breeden's won the Bush class in a Super Cub. That was the best piloting of the day IMO.

I would like to see this event in zero wind some day. Wind masks a lot and does not give a good indication of the airplane and pilots true capabilities. I remember when the Carbon Cub took off in 19 feet, although flown by an amazing pilot, the wind was blowing pretty good. Seems like everyone leaves that part out when they mention the short take off. Although a very very good performer, I doubt it could come close to 19 feet in zero wind. Just my humble opinion.

G44

I agree G44, and was thinking this today. But how on earth do we control the weather? Two years ago the weather was so bad only 3 (I think) competitors even made it to Valdez.

No matter the conditions, the best pilots/airplanes will still perform the best. Taking off and especially landing in the wind can add a whole new set of challenges, especially when operating on the fringes of the envelope.

Anyway, not preaching, just the thoughts that were going through my head today as I waited for results, wondering what the winds were really doing and if they calmed down at all for the delayed event.

From SC.org, handle "Henny"

"Results from the banquet below:

Valdez Results 2014
Bush Class
3: Paul Claus 167'
2: Bob Breeden 119'
1: Bobby Breeden (61/55) 116'


Alternate Bush Class:
3: 120' Steve Henry Just Aircraft
2: 83' Josh Peppard SQ12
1: 76' Frank knapp Lil Cub


Hvy Touring 1st: Helio Courier (Low 200's)
Light Touring 1st: Cessna 170 (229')"

Just my two cents...

I think any STOL competition tends toward being irrelevant to real conditions so long as they are conducted with airplanes that are light rather than carrying a substantial load. But it is kind of fun to see what they can do, and it looks cool on youtube.

Removing the weather would only further separate reality from the competition, but in that case it would tend to make it less exciting. Of course they can't land in 19 feet with no wind. But you take the weather you get, that's how flying works.

On a related note, when the weather was terrible and only 3 contestants made it in...I wondered whether they should have been DQ-ed for judgement unbecoming a bush pilot for flying there in the first place.

But I wasn't there, so that's probably not fair for me to say.

I've never understood why people point at the competition and suggest it's not reality.... It's just a fly -in with a contest, get over it and enjoy it! I'm pretty sure in reality the wind will do whatever it wants..... Just like at Valdez. One chap might get a gust, one might see a breeze, one a full blown gail.

Sure it's not being done off a ridge top with a pair of boned out caribou in the back, or off a slough with moose quarters for a pax and antlers on the strut, BTDT, and i suggest that for 99.9 % of the viewers on this site, that is not reality.

Here's a couple reality checks for you;

The over all winner of Valdez last year spent an entire winter (all day, every day) shooting more landings and take offs in just that winter, than most people will in several years, perhaps more than some will complete in their entire lives! Not half baked, but with meters, timers, cameras, tweaks, twists, and turns.. He then went on to whip up on the unlimited $$$ 'big boys' in a home built J3!

This years over all winner.... Wait let me qualify that... this years over all winner is the same guy as last year. I think the consistency alone speaks for the pilots skill level. On that note I think you'll see all the same pilots hitting the all top slots, not any new faces, not any of the other really good guys that attempted... how does that not make them the best of the best? Don't think Paul Claus is a master of the back country wing? I bet a weekend flying around in his country trying to chase them boys around would solve that... and it would be the funnest flying you've ever done

But back to this years winner... This years winner is the kind of soft spoken positive aviator roll model I strive to emulate (and fail miserably ). No ' hey everybody look at me'. Not the typical BCAH type, no big racket, no drama, just an All American good guy who works tremendously hard to get what he wants, and consequently succeeds.... What a concept in todays world, right? He is the guy I want to be when I grow up... example?
This winter Franks newly constructed hangar burned up. It was a pain stakingly built dream that would be his retirement 'nest'. In that fire he lost 'Lil Cub' as well as 'Sadie' his stocker J3 and his 180/172.... An amazing blow, this would have knocked most of us mere mortals to our knees... but when the dust settled, Frank dragged the remnants of Lil Cub out, cut the few remaining useable tubes out of her, put them in a jig that he built himself, threw away a burned pile of rubble that once was a J3 he amassed a few thousand hours in, and began the task of rebuilding. Just s few months later that hard effort once again resulted in a win at Valdez. Think about that the next time you follow a 'build thread' for a couple years! A win over a $250,000.00 SQ12 with yet another gifted pilot at the stick! But one with the financial wherewith all to pretty much secure the throne... but guess what? reality took over!

Nah.... Valdez, sure may not resemble a hunt camp, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts the rest of it is pretty much the same conditions any of us might encounter on any given day... in other words... reality

I put this on here before, but I love watching it! Congrats Frank! You deserved it buddy! Have fun at Osh!
http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=3081342584001

Rob wrote:I've never understood why people point at the competition and suggest it's not reality.... It's just a fly -in with a contest, get over it and enjoy it! I'm pretty sure in reality the wind will do whatever it wants..... Just like at Valdez. One chap might get a gust, one might see a breeze, one a full blown gail.

Sure it's not being done off a ridge top with a pair of boned out caribou in the back, or off a slough with moss quarters for a pax and antlers on the strut, BTDT, and i suggest that for 99.9 % of the viewers on this site, that is not reality.

Here's a couple reality checks for you;

The over all winner of Valdez last year spent an entire winter (all day, every day) shooting more landings and take offs in just that winter, than most people will in several years, perhaps more than some will complete in their entire lives! Not half baked, but with meters, timers, cameras, tweaks, twists, and turns.. He then went on to whip up on the unlimited $$$ 'big boys' in a home built J3!

This years over all winner.... Wait let me qualify that... this years over all winner is the same guy as last year. I think the consistency alone speaks for the pilots skill level. On that note I think you'll see all the same pilots hitting the all top slots, not any new faces, not any of the other really good guys that attempted... how does that not make them the best of the best? Don't think Paul Claus is a master of the back country wing? I bet a weekend flying around in his country trying to chase them boys around would solve that... and it would be the funnest flying you've ever done

But back to this years winner... This years winner is the kind of soft spoken positive aviator roll model I strive to emulate (and fail miserably ). No ' hey everybody look at me'. Not the typical BCAH type, no big racket, no drama, just an All American good guy who works tremendously hard to get what he wants, and consequently succeeds.... What a concept in todays world, right? He is the guy I want to be when I grow up... example?
This winter Franks newly constructed hangar burned up. It was a pain stakingly built dream that would be his retirement 'nest'. In that fire he lost 'Lil Cub' as well as 'Sadie' his stocker J3 and his 180/172.... An amazing blow, this would have knocked most of us mere mortals to our knees... but when the dust settled, Frank dragged the remnants of Lil Cub out, cut the few remaining useable tubes out of her, put them in a jig that he built himself, threw away a burned pile of rubble that once was a J3 he amassed a few thousand hours in, and began the task of rebuilding. Just s few months later that hard effort once again resulted in a win at Valdez. Think about that the next time you follow a 'build thread' for a couple years! A win over a $250,000.00 SQ12 with yet another gifted pilot at the stick! But one with the financial wherewith all to pretty much secure the throne... but guess what? reality took over!

Nah.... Valdez, sure may not resemble a hunt camp, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts the rest of it is pretty much the same conditions any of us might encounter on any given day... in other words... reality

I put this on here before, but I love watching it! Congrats Frank! You deserved it buddy! Have fun at Osh!
http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=3081342584001

We need a like button! That pretty much sums it up...^^^ Good job Frank!

Agreed great effort by Mr Knap, and great flying.

This airplane has been made to win this competition, no doubt about it.
I dont think it can be taken anywhere in the real bush though.

Had great fun watching this.

Wow, what a rags to riches story, sort of. What a tale of persistence and hard work, with a lot of skill thrown in. Great that he won, again , make that NO shock, he earned it.

I guess he lost his cowling and tail wheel in the fire also? I love that, I would have liked to have been a fly on the hangar wall when the thought hit " hey, we don't need either"! Also, all that extra fabric, GONE. I know it's been done before, but he seems to have brought all the extreme weight saving tricks together like no one else, I bet he empties out the change in his pockets before going flying, even non Valdez flying.

Whoa hold on a minute,

I never slammed these guys directly or indirectly. I never said it was not reality, all I said is for a true consistent measure of pilot and plane I would like to see this competition in no wind. Yes, I realize there is no "off" button for the wind and the wind blows out in the field but a no wind day, if it should ever happen, would be great. Congratulations to everyone.

G44

Rob wrote:I've never understood why people point at the competition and suggest it's not reality.... It's just a fly -in with a contest, get over it and enjoy it! I'm pretty sure in reality the wind will do whatever it wants..... Just like at Valdez. One chap might get a gust, one might see a breeze, one a full blown gail.

Sure it's not being done off a ridge top with a pair of boned out caribou in the back, or off a slough with moose quarters for a pax and antlers on the strut, BTDT, and i suggest that for 99.9 % of the viewers on this site, that is not reality.

Here's a couple reality checks for you;

The over all winner of Valdez last year spent an entire winter (all day, every day) shooting more landings and take offs in just that winter, than most people will in several years, perhaps more than some will complete in their entire lives! Not half baked, but with meters, timers, cameras, tweaks, twists, and turns.. He then went on to whip up on the unlimited $$$ 'big boys' in a home built J3!

This years over all winner.... Wait let me qualify that... this years over all winner is the same guy as last year. I think the consistency alone speaks for the pilots skill level. On that note I think you'll see all the same pilots hitting the all top slots, not any new faces, not any of the other really good guys that attempted... how does that not make them the best of the best? Don't think Paul Claus is a master of the back country wing? I bet a weekend flying around in his country trying to chase them boys around would solve that... and it would be the funnest flying you've ever done

But back to this years winner... This years winner is the kind of soft spoken positive aviator roll model I strive to emulate (and fail miserably ). No ' hey everybody look at me'. Not the typical BCAH type, no big racket, no drama, just an All American good guy who works tremendously hard to get what he wants, and consequently succeeds.... What a concept in todays world, right? He is the guy I want to be when I grow up... example?
This winter Franks newly constructed hangar burned up. It was a pain stakingly built dream that would be his retirement 'nest'. In that fire he lost 'Lil Cub' as well as 'Sadie' his stocker J3 and his 180/172.... An amazing blow, this would have knocked most of us mere mortals to our knees... but when the dust settled, Frank dragged the remnants of Lil Cub out, cut the few remaining useable tubes out of her, put them in a jig that he built himself, threw away a burned pile of rubble that once was a J3 he amassed a few thousand hours in, and began the task of rebuilding. Just s few months later that hard effort once again resulted in a win at Valdez. Think about that the next time you follow a 'build thread' for a couple years! A win over a $250,000.00 SQ12 with yet another gifted pilot at the stick! But one with the financial wherewith all to pretty much secure the throne... but guess what? reality took over!

Nah.... Valdez, sure may not resemble a hunt camp, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts the rest of it is pretty much the same conditions any of us might encounter on any given day... in other words... reality

I put this on here before, but I love watching it! Congrats Frank! You deserved it buddy! Have fun at Osh!
http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=3081342584001

It would be interesting to see an "at gross" category. For example will a top cub at 2300 take of as short as an old 150hp at 1750?
It would not be as spectacular to watch though I admit.

The whole wind during the competition thing reminds me of one year at the Three Forks Montana fly in of the MAAA. About 20 mph direct cross, and the guy who usually wins the spot landing contest won it yet again! Coolest part is it was in, and again as usual, his 1927 (or '29) Travel Aire!

Anybody know if that winning C-170 was a 220 Franklin, or happen to catch the pilot's name? Thanks.
-DP

Shawn Holly from Soldotna. IO-360 Continental. He has won the last 4 years in a row.

River rat wrote:It would be interesting to see an "at gross" category. For example will a top cub at 2300 take of as short as an old 150hp at 1750?
It would not be as spectacular to watch though I admit.

They used to hold another contest after the main contest. the winners of the main contest could compete with 300 pounds of sandbags in their planes to somewhat simulate higher weight ops.

And, in matter of fact, almost nobody operating in really tough strips operates at actual gross weight anyway, so the pilot and 300 did a pretty good job of simulating "real life" conditions, if that's really possible.

In any case, this is a contest and celebration of bush plane performance, oh, and a celebration of SPRING. Who cares if it replicates "real life" ---- whatever that is.

I recall one year in Gulkana, JW from 40 Mile Air came down from Tok for the contest in their single engine Otter. He had seven or eight folks with him. Near the end of the contest, he headed back to Tok with all hiss passengers, AND plenty of gas. The judges measured his takeoff run at 88 feet . Blew out one back window when he rotated. There was a bit of wind, but "real life"? You betcha

Congratulations to the Breedens....those two are both class acts, no doubt.

MTV

Kudos to everyone who competed for putting it out there, and congratulations to those who placed!

Thanks to all who made the trip and all who are following along. We had over 250 planes and a huge crowd that drove in as well. The wind was a bummer, the beach landing is my favorite event and it just wasn't worth doing in the wind and being uncomfortable. We delayed the competition with the winds. Sure there could have been great numbers but it was not a wide idea. Cole Ellis and Frank Knapp both provided great perspective on the situation. Sure they could do it but why? We were not going to invite an accident or pressure someone into a bad situation. the wind did start to calm down, I forgot to look when we started but it was 10 g15 about an hour in and then went down pretty rapidly. The Heavy Touring had to contend with a gust and that took skill. The wind was pretty calm by the time the last heat of the Bush class went. We were going to take the top five in the Bush class and have them go again in a final heat but we ran out of time. that would have been fun to see them all fly together and with the same wind but it wasn't that big of a difference.

The attendance was pretty astounding. We will have a figure when we count things up. The pilot round table was standing room only and along with Paul Claus and Kirk and Cole Ellis we were joined by Vern Kingsford and Richard Wien. The tips were unbelievable, their combined experience was over 100,000 hours of bush flying and and not the "bush" flying that the term has expanded into. Richard did a great presentation on his dad Noel. Really he is the father of commercial aviation in Alaska and went from flying in a plane with a wicker seat to a 737. Pretty phenomenal.

MTV has is about right. This is about getting pilots together to fly and knocking the rust off. We don't pretend that a chalk line on the middle of a 5,000 ft runway is real life, it is just a challenge. We did have a bush challenge of putting 300 lb in the plane but that was only a take off. We linked the landing and take off because well, you have to do both. From watching these for 11 years a few things are evident. There are no fluke winners. The good pilots are always there. Also the takeoffs are pretty consistent, there is much more variability in the landing. First you can't scratch a take off and there are more factors in it. The consistency in the results is pretty telling too, across many classes. The heavy touring class had a 3 foot difference in his totals.

We are not going to have heavily loaded planes in a competition. While it may be perfectly safe for the experienced pilots we are wanting all to compete and loaded you are closer to the edge. We simply are not going to invite a problem. And no there is no way to weigh the planes first, that comes up too. we would like to bring back the light sport class but we need more entries. We only had four total in the alternate Bush. All had great performance. Frank Knapp simply built a plane for what he likes to do, put around cheaply landing and taking off and yes, he does it in the "bush." haul a moose? No but he is out there. Also consider that this last November he was looking at his plane after a hangar fire that had gotten so hot it melted the spar. Frank brought a new and improved version in three months of construction. He moved the pilot seat back and as well as the engine and even went crazy with a starter. When you see him fly all you can do it take off your hat. The SQ12 was pretty cool too as was the super Stol. I don't know what wasn't cool though, the ratty old working cubs were fun to watch too, and the 172's were flown pretty darn well too.

Thanks again to all who made it, especially those who flew. We had quite a group from the states this time as well. If you have any suggestions please feel free to e-mail me at jprax (at) alaska.net or reply or message me here.

Joe Prax,

Thanks for all the work you do to make the Valdez weekend happen. It is a great event and it has been on my bucket list for many years now. STOL competitions are just good fun. Watching the high skill level of the pilots is very motivating for me.

I am sure it is easier said than done, but if there is ever a way to live stream the competition, it would great for those of us who can't be there. I would certainly be willing to pay for that option.

Congratulations on another successful year, even with the challenging wind conditions.

Joe