Which Engine Analyzer
Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:42 am
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
It’s a good thing that everyone can make their choices, then.
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Experimental Pacer
home hand jam "wizard"
Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:39 am
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
According to the guys who taught Mike Busch about LOP flying (Advanced Pilot Seminars, advancedpilot.com), it is sometimes possible to get a carbureted engine to operate LOP by cracking open the carburetor heat – just a small amount – just enough to create a little turbulence in the carburetor air intake. They say it works about 50% of the time, so why not give it a try?
I used to have an O-320 powered Grumman Traveler (upgraded with the high-compression STC, so ~160 HP), and a digital engine monitor. This trick worked for me, but not every time I tried it... Who knows why... Maybe slightly different OAT, altitude, humidity, or different slack in the carb heat cable – could be the phase of the moon, for all I know...
But when it did work, it was pretty cool. I could lean so that my richest cylinder was at 20-25º LOP, and I'd be burning about 6 GPH (roughly 60% power) at 6000 ft, which gave me about 110 KTAS. Typical 65% ROP cruise at that altitude was 116 KTAS burning 7.4 GPH. So LOP operations cost me about 5% airspeed, but saved me about 20% on fuel. (Comparing only "economic settings) for this analysis.) It's a nice trick to have in the bag when you need to extend your range to avoid an expensive fuel stop, or any other time you need to stretch your range a bit.
But realistically, I bought the Grumman Traveler to go fast (relatively speaking – compared to Cessna/Piper products), so I generally flew it leaned to 125º ROP at max available power for my chosen cruising altitudes. At 6000 ft (to equate to the example above) that gave me about 130 KTAS burning 8.5 GPH.
As they taught in the Advanced Pilot Seminar:
Wanna go FAR, fly LOP (at least 15-20º lean of peak on the richest cylinder)
Wanna go FAST, fly ROP (at least 100ºF rich of peak on the leanest cylinder)
I used to have an O-320 powered Grumman Traveler (upgraded with the high-compression STC, so ~160 HP), and a digital engine monitor. This trick worked for me, but not every time I tried it... Who knows why... Maybe slightly different OAT, altitude, humidity, or different slack in the carb heat cable – could be the phase of the moon, for all I know...
But when it did work, it was pretty cool. I could lean so that my richest cylinder was at 20-25º LOP, and I'd be burning about 6 GPH (roughly 60% power) at 6000 ft, which gave me about 110 KTAS. Typical 65% ROP cruise at that altitude was 116 KTAS burning 7.4 GPH. So LOP operations cost me about 5% airspeed, but saved me about 20% on fuel. (Comparing only "economic settings) for this analysis.) It's a nice trick to have in the bag when you need to extend your range to avoid an expensive fuel stop, or any other time you need to stretch your range a bit.
But realistically, I bought the Grumman Traveler to go fast (relatively speaking – compared to Cessna/Piper products), so I generally flew it leaned to 125º ROP at max available power for my chosen cruising altitudes. At 6000 ft (to equate to the example above) that gave me about 130 KTAS burning 8.5 GPH.
As they taught in the Advanced Pilot Seminar:
Wanna go FAR, fly LOP (at least 15-20º lean of peak on the richest cylinder)
Wanna go FAST, fly ROP (at least 100ºF rich of peak on the leanest cylinder)
Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:51 pm
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
Bottom line is that without a four or six probe engine analyzer, you really have no idea what your engine is doing. Using traditional methods for engine management is about like a metallurgist looking for that "straw color" before quenching a blade in the oil bath. It works...but there's a very finite limit to what's attainable. I cannot fathom not having a engine analyzer, given how inexpensive they are compared to cylinders or exhaust systems or hundreds of wasted gallons of av-gas.
Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:58 am
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
Put 16 hours on my 180 the last two days. I have the UBG-16 and I'd do it the old fashioned way...lean it until the motor begins to stumble a bit, and then richen it "a little." Never saw over about 340 on my #1 cylinder, and #6 would be about 290 on the CHTs.
After all the keep it under 380 info I'd been reading it doesn't seem to be an issue for me.
My highest EGT temp I saw in cruise was about 1450 with the same 340 or so CHT when running 23/2450 trying to make a tight Customs appointment.
After all the keep it under 380 info I'd been reading it doesn't seem to be an issue for me.
My highest EGT temp I saw in cruise was about 1450 with the same 340 or so CHT when running 23/2450 trying to make a tight Customs appointment.
Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:08 am
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
akaviator wrote:Put 16 hours on my 180 the last two days. I have the UBG-16 and I'd do it the old fashioned way...lean it until the motor begins to stumble a bit, and then richen it "a little." Never saw over about 340 on my #1 cylinder, and #6 would be about 290 on the CHTs.
…...
FWIW the C180 TCDS specifies that the standard single-point CHT probe should be located on cyl #2 through s/n 18051445, #1 s/n 18051446 through 18052500, and #3 sn 18052501 and up.
Cessna Skywagon -- accept no substitute!
Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:14 am
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
CamTom12 wrote:...Especially in carbureted engines, fuel/air mixture isn't perfectly balanced across all cylinders. With only a single EGT you might accidentally lean one or more cylinders into a less than optimal scenario (see here: https://www.savvyaviation.com/wp-conten ... ed-fin.pdf)......
You touched on this issue with a recent post on the SC site:
[QUOTE=CamTom12;753860] I’ve got dual Pmags (E-AB), and I can’t lean to the stumble like I used to. In some conditions I can get lean of peak on all cylinders (O-320-160). Or at least, I’m pretty sure I am. I have an old single-point gauge with the EI remote switch to see all 4 EGT/CHT. It’s really tough to tell what peak is on each cylinder in various conditions. .[/QUOTE]
Kinda reinforces my point-- with a carbureted engine, it's hard to hit LOP (good) on one or more cylinders without the possibility of hitting peak (bad) on another. I'd rather lean conservatively (ROP) and give up a little fuel economy than burn anything.
May be possible (or easier) by using carb heat, maybe not.
Cessna Skywagon -- accept no substitute!
Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:45 am
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
hotrod180 wrote:akaviator wrote:Put 16 hours on my 180 the last two days. I have the UBG-16 and I'd do it the old fashioned way...lean it until the motor begins to stumble a bit, and then richen it "a little." Never saw over about 340 on my #1 cylinder, and #6 would be about 290 on the CHTs.
…...
FWIW the C180 TCDS specifies that the standard single-point CHT probe should be located on cyl #2 through s/n 18051445, #1 s/n 18051446 through 18052500, and #3 sn 18052501 and up.
I have all 6 cylinders monitored. Interesting how they recommend different locations.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:49 am
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
That also reinforces my point that a good graphical EGT/CHT is very important.
Even if you want to err on the rich side, you need to know where you are in reference to the peak. On each cylinder.
That’s impossible to do on a single point gauge, and tough on a single display with each cylinder selectable like mine is. A good graphical gauge that displays both CHT and EGT is necessary to know where you’re at on the leanness/richness curve.
Even if you want to err on the rich side, you need to know where you are in reference to the peak. On each cylinder.
That’s impossible to do on a single point gauge, and tough on a single display with each cylinder selectable like mine is. A good graphical gauge that displays both CHT and EGT is necessary to know where you’re at on the leanness/richness curve.
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Experimental Pacer
home hand jam "wizard"
Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:53 am
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
akaviator wrote:hotrod180 wrote: FWIW the C180 TCDS specifies that the standard single-point CHT probe should be located on cyl #2 through s/n 18051445, #1 s/n 18051446 through 18052500, and #3 sn 18052501 and up.
I have all 6 cylinders monitored. Interesting how they recommend different locations.
Don't know why the shift between #2 & #1, but the shift to #3 at s/n 52501 coincides with when Cessna changed to the O470-S engine.
Cessna Skywagon -- accept no substitute!
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:59 pm
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
What would be considered a more "traditional" form of engine analyzer.I've got a thing for the old school look I get enough of the magenta stuff in my day job
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:08 am
Which Engine Analyzer
Mapleflt wrote:What would be considered a more "traditional" form of engine analyzer.I've got a thing for the old school look I get enough of the magenta stuff in my day job
Compared to the new stuff on the market, the Electronics Int'l UBG-16 would be considered a "traditional" one IMO.
The below is slightly ROP, full throttle, around 10k ft MSL - Continental O-300.
2650 rpm and 19" is less than 75% power, and this engine has been very happy cruising at higher rpms for more than 25 years.
You can see my CHT on 5&6 way lower than the rest because they get blasted by cold air. Later 172s with the O-300 have baffles/plates to let them warm up and I'd like to eventually put some on mine.
EGT is all over the place because of many things but the asymmetry of the intake doesn't help. I don't run LOP with my carburetor anyways so the variance is really no factor for me.
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:25 am
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
Cool, and a quick look indicates there's a fair number of EI products available on the "open" market.
Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:50 am
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
I'm more interested in the STC for the "cloaking". Can guns be armed while cloaked?
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:54 pm
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
Mark Y. wrote:I'm more interested in the STC for the "cloaking". Can guns be armed while cloaked?
I can't talk about that [emoji2958]
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:06 pm
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
Not exactly traditional, but I like the idea of these. Light, and you already have the iPad...Mapleflt wrote:Cool, and a quick look indicates there's a fair number of EI products available on the "open" market.
https://www.aircraftinstruments.eu
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:23 pm
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
I don't see any magenta so that also a plus 
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:47 am
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
Mapleflt wrote:What would be considered a more "traditional" form of engine analyzer.I've got a thing for the old school look I get enough of the magenta stuff in my day job
Cessna Skywagon -- accept no substitute!
Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:30 pm
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
Hahahahaha, nice
- CamTom12 offline
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Experimental Pacer
home hand jam "wizard"
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:15 pm
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
[email protected] wrote:Hi,
Cessna 180 with an O-470R.
Which Eng. Analyzer should I buy and why?
Eng info like MP, RPM, FF, OAT, HP would be nice to have but not a must.
Budget, bout 4K USD
Thanks,
Manuel
I have an Insight G4. Fits in a 3" hole and does everything except fuel quantity.
Bob
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:12 am
Re: Which Engine Analyzer
Uhh, a year went by and I never intalled an engine monitor! Now is the time.
Want to keep my original instruments, open budget.
CRG 30P or JPI 830, which one you like better and why?
Can I keep my present fuel indicators working using any of those? Still have original sensors
Want to keep my original instruments, open budget.
CRG 30P or JPI 830, which one you like better and why?
Can I keep my present fuel indicators working using any of those? Still have original sensors
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