Okay, let me take another run at this:

So, now you’ve decided that your mission “requires” a taildragger. You don’t specify why that’s the case,except you’re in AK. So what else leads you conclude you “need” a tailwheel airplane?

But, assuming you’re committed to go there, I’ll tell you what factors will determine your likelihood to ground loop:

1. Training.....This is huge. Get good training in whatever airplane you choose, from a hard ass instructor who won’t give up till you can fly the plane. NO half assed checkouts.

2. Stay current. Once you complete that checkout, fly the hell out of that airplane. Take three weeks without flying it? Go do a bunch of t/o and landings.

3. Work your way to excellence, a bit at a time. Never assume you’re good enough, keep working to perfection.

4. Stay humble. An airplane can humble the best pilot at some point. Understand that shit happens, and it’s almost always the pilots fault. Admit it, learn from it and become a better pilot. But never assume you’re so good you can’t get bit.

5. All the above in hand, there are few airplanes you can’t handle just fine. That said, your attitude will also play a huge role in how things go.

But, all the above complete, the choice of airplane won’t really make much difference.

MTV

When searching for an aircraft that would fit our mission requirements as a low time pilot fresh out of C150's and Tomahawks, I earnestly looked for a trike that would do the job based on advice and insurance rates. We ended up with the Maule; best fit and no regrets. Being an equipment operator I have found (like others have said here) that if you stay ahead of the machine it will obey. A lot of ground looping is the pilot allowing the situation to get beyond the point of no return. I also believe in using all available resources to ensure control of the aircraft. This includes the brakes. With rudder (I listed this first...), ailerons, throttle and brakes there is no reason you can't maintain control. Distraction or complacency are probably the biggest reasons ground loops occur. If I ever ground loop, I know who's fault it will be.

With that said, my advice is that fear of taildraggers is unnecessary if you are willing and able to stay ahead of the aircraft.

I have about 1300 total with the last 700 in Maule’s, Citabrias, a 206 and a C180. I don’t see any of these TD’s being more or less prone than the others to loss of directional control but I DO very much believe that currency and weather minimums are bigger with TD’s than trikes. When I’m flying a ton, a trike can get a little boring to land. As of yet, I have neither gotten bored nor had a ground loop in any of my TD’s. My $.02.

mtv wrote:Okay, let me take another run at this:

So, now you’ve decided that your mission “squires” a taildragger. You don’t specify why that’s the case,except you’re in AK. So what else leads you conclude you “need” a tailwheel airplane?

But, assuming you’re committed to go there, I’ll tell you what factors will determine your likelihood to ground loop:

1. Training.....This is huge. Get good training in whatever airplane you choose, from a hard ass instructor who won’t give up till you can fly the plane. NO half assed checkouts.

2. Stay current. Once you complete that checkout, fly the hell out of that airplane. Take three weeks without flying it? Go do a bunch of t/o and landings.

3. Work your way to excellence, a bit at a time. Never assume you’re good enough, keep working to perfection.

4. Stay humble. An airplane can humble the best pilot at some point. Understand that shit happens, and it’s almost always the pilots fault. Admit it, learn from it and become a better pilot. But never assume you’re so good you can’t get bit.

5. All the above in hand, there are few airplanes you can’t handle just fine. That said, your attitude will also play a huge role in how things go.

But, all the above complete, the choice of airplane won’t really make much difference.

MTV

I tend to agree that it is all about attitude and focus, overlaid on experience and currency.

If you get too RELAXED then you will ground loop anything, given enough time.

Get something you are terrified of, so you never let your guard down. Kidding.

Some say shorter airframes are harder, I have personally never noticed a remarkable difference. I am nervous until I get current in any plane, long or short.

Someone once wrote (on this forum):
"You haven't stopped flying until the airplane has stopped moving." Words to land a taildragger by.

In addition to the great philosophies we've read here, i would add the Rans S-7 to my list of airplanes that a toddler could fly straight down a paved runway in a stiff crosswind. Just a great design that you can wear like a glove.

Groundlooping sounds like some scary black ice cold-cocked in a dark alley thing but really once you get 20-30 hours under your belt, your brain starts doing all the work in a background process.

If you read about ground looping on the internet and engage in hangar flying discussions about ground looping very often you will develop a self fulling prophecy to do it.

1, Don't learn to fly in a trike, they ruin pilots.
2, Don't obsess about ground looping by reading or talking about it.
3, Find an Old instructor with an old airplane that both still work.

X2 on what tcj said. I learned to fly in a 172 and then I bought a tri-gear Maule which I put 800hrs on, next I bought a Maule M6-235. My bad habits instantly became crystal clear, took about 50hrs to shake them loose, I was 50YO so old dog new tricks YMMV. I've got about 350 hrs in the M6 now and I can honestly say I feel like I'm wearing it , would have been much better to have just started with TW from the beginning. MY 2C

Some say it takes as many iterations of a new control action technique as has been performed differently to extinguish the old control action technique. Very sloppy rudder control will nevertheless achieve the plus or minus five degree heading criteria in the flight test. Heading requirements indicate poor orientation to begin with. In contact flying, including takeoff and landing, target orientation is more appropriate.

If we fly many hours cross country with a heading orientation and our feet on the floorboard, we get thousands of iterations of leveling the wing and directing our course with aileron rather than rudder. No! Perfect coordination of aileron and rudder won't fix the problem. It also will result in wing wagging on final.

The only way to extinguish aileron heading orientation is to perform many, many iterations of properly directing our course to the target with rudder only. Until we understand that rudder leads aileron in coordinated turns and when rudder is used independently to direct our course, either between our legs or butt to target, with rudder only.

We cannot fully extinguish bad orientation and wake up sleepy feet, until we use rudder correctly enough to make it muscle memory. If we make proper rudder usage a special event, landing, only consideration, fluid situations will wake us up during a tailwheel airplane takeoff or landing.

Dog is my Copilot wrote:….Loading the plane with a rearward cg also gives the tail more momentum compared with a forward cg making it more prone to ground looping.

Gear location makes a difference also.
Cessna modified the 180 in 1955 with MLG that put the wheels about 3" farther forward.
Given the same weight and CG, the earlier model with the "wheels aft" gear would be more prone to nose-overs,
the later models with "wheels forward" gear would be more prone to groundlooping.
I know a guy who bought a Starduster 2 which flew fine, but could never get comfortable with the ground handling.
He hooked up with an experienced homebuilder who flew the airplane, took some measurements,
then welded on new MLG fittings a couple inches farther aft.
It handled like a pussycat after that.

OK, Thanx Everyone!

I think I got what I needed from this thread. The best advice was probably, "Stay humble."
Which applies whether you're making your first tail-wheel landing or X,000th post on this forum.

robw56 wrote:

This 170 is less prone to ground loop than other 170s

Egads I'd like to unsee that.

One final point: You can do a LOT of backcountry and off airport flying with many tricycle gear airplanes. I had situations in my work where I had the choice of a Cessna 185 or a 206 for a particular job. Often the choice was the 206.

One prominent air taxi operator in the interior had a couple 185s and several 206s. They sold the 185s and bought a couple more 206s. I asked the owner why they got rid of the 185s. His response was that the 185s weren’t getting used much. His pilots could take the airplane they felt best suited the flight, and they almost always chose the 206. And these folks did a lot of off airport stuff.

So don’t overlook a good tri gear, it might be a great tool.

MTV

BluNosDav wrote:whether you're making your first tail-wheel landing or X,000th post on this forum.

The latter is simply a willingness to type. It means nothing in terms of real world flying experience.

Only 3 kinds of taildragger pilots when it comes to ground loops:

1. Those that will
2. Those that have
3. Those that have but are lying about it!

Seriously though, in my 30 years of flying, I’ve seen men far more talented than I get bit. Sometimes it’s not even something you expect, like a tail wheel steering spring that breaks on one side and then gives you some excitement on landing rollout.

Keep your hand on the throttle and don’t be afraid to use it to regain directional control and rudder effectiveness if you find yourself inadvertently going off into the weeds.

Oh and make sure you have enough room ahead for that solution as well [emoji16]

Aryana wrote:Only 3 kinds of taildragger pilots when it comes to ground loops:

1. Those that will
2. Those that have
3. Those that have but are lying about it!

Seriously though, in my 30 years of flying, I’ve seen men far more talented than I get bit. Sometimes it’s not even something you expect, like a tail wheel steering spring that breaks on one side and then gives you some excitement on landing rollout.

Keep your hand on the throttle and don’t be afraid to use it to regain directional control and rudder effectiveness if you find yourself inadvertently going off into the weeds.

Oh and make sure you have enough room ahead for that solution as well [emoji16]

That's like the saying "there are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots". Bullshit.
Yes accidents can happen, but just because you fly a tail dragger doesn't mean you will or have ground looped. I hate those kind of generalizing statements.

A1Skinner wrote:That's like the saying "there are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots". Bullshit.
Yes accidents can happen, but just because you fly a tail dragger doesn't mean you will or have ground looped. I hate those kind of generalizing statements.

You’re missing the point and the lesson went over your head.

It expresses and emphasizes the problematic phenomenon of complacency which can (and has) caught even the best pilots out.

If you believe you’re exempt from ever having the possibility of a ground loop, then that’s quite impressive, but false.

I’m more on the humble side of the spectrum. I have seen too many balled up taildraggers from folks with your mindset.

And for the record, I’m on year 31 without a single ground loop so far...but I know it can happen on the very next flight.

Aryana wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:That's like the saying "there are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots". Bullshit.
Yes accidents can happen, but just because you fly a tail dragger doesn't mean you will or have ground looped. I hate those kind of generalizing statements.

You’re missing the point and the lesson went over your head.

It expresses and emphasizes the problematic phenomenon of complacency which can (and has) caught even the best pilots out.

If you believe you’re exempt from ever having the possibility of a ground loop, then that’s quite impressive, but false.

I’m more on the humble side of the spectrum. I have seen too many balled up taildraggers from folks with your mindset.

And for the record, I’m on year 31 without a single ground loop so far...but I know it can happen on the very next flight.

But your statement is still false, I'd agree with David. There are people who never groundloop in their flying career, that's a fact. Luck, skill, whatever. So we can strive for that while still remaining humble and knowing that it could happen, no one is saying they're immune. Do humble people usually tell people that they're humble?

Aryana wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:That's like the saying "there are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots". Bullshit.
Yes accidents can happen, but just because you fly a tail dragger doesn't mean you will or have ground looped. I hate those kind of generalizing statements.

You’re missing the point and the lesson went over your head.

It expresses and emphasizes the problematic phenomenon of complacency which can (and has) caught even the best pilots out.

If you believe you’re exempt from ever having the possibility of a ground loop, then that’s quite impressive, but false.

I’m more on the humble side of the spectrum. I have seen too many balled up taildraggers from folks with your mindset.

And for the record, I’m on year 31 without a single ground loop so far...but I know it can happen on the very next flight.

I never said I was immune. I said I hate those type of blanket statements because i think they are bullshit. I've wrecked one plane but not from a ground loop. If I ever do one I'll be the first to admit it. Just fly the plane until its stopped every time and dont worry how many years of experience you have and if you've ground looped yet or if this is your time. Just respect the airplane and enjoy it. And dont make generalizations that mean nothing.

The idea is to stay in the "those that will" category until the end.

A1Skinner wrote:I said I hate those type of blanket statements because i think they are bullshit

Then let’s apply that same logic to your general statements...I guess yours are BS too?

Serious question: Are you a tailwheel CFI? If so, how many tailwheel pilots have you successfully trained?

I’m sincerely interested and thank you for your point of view on my posts, even though I completely disagree. It’s very good for everyone to see both sides of the coin. Like I mentioned, I’m at the humble end of the spectrum even though I have never so much as dinged an aircraft.

It can happen at anytime, and yes...that is a general statement that I’m sure you believe is BS (which is ok with me [emoji482])