Zzz wrote:The idea is to stay in the "those that will" category until the end.

Amen to that! Please tell me when you figure out how to make that happen...I’m still learning.

alaskaoe wrote:

robw56 wrote:
This 170 is less prone to ground loop than other 170s

Egads I'd like to unsee that.

Pass the eye bleach please.

Aryana wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:I said I hate those type of blanket statements because i think they are bullshit

Then let’s apply that same logic to your general statements...I guess yours are BS too?

Serious question: Are you a tailwheel CFI? If so, how many tailwheel pilots have you successfully trained?

I’m sincerely interested and thank you for your point of view on my posts, even though I completely disagree. It’s very good for everyone to see both sides of the coin. Like I mentioned, I’m at the humble end of the spectrum even though I have never so much as dinged an aircraft.

It can happen at anytime, and yes...that is a general statement that I’m sure you believe is BS (which is ok with me [emoji482])

Fly the plane until its stopped is BS? Ok then. Yes it can happen at anytime. But you are saying it will happen. And that is BS because it's been proven to be wrong. There are many pilots who never have and never will, mainly because they fly the plane until its tied down and are co distantly paying attention to the task at hand.

Oh hell...let's all just go out and ground loop our airplanes so we don't have to debate the point anymore.

FWIW, I also hate the "and those that will" statement, but I think it began as a way of cautioning pilots that their turn is just around the corner, so stay sharp. Stay sharp long enough and you'll die before you ground loop.

Seems like there should be an equivalent statement for trike pilots. Maybe the same phrase, but substitute "erectile disfunction" for "ground loop"...

A1Skinner wrote:
Fly the plane until its stopped is BS? Ok then. Yes it can happen at anytime. But you are saying it will happen. And that is BS because it's been proven to be wrong. There are many pilots who never have and never will, mainly because they fly the plane until its tied down and are co distantly paying attention to the task at hand.

The moral of the joke is lost on you. I can see you have some animosity for my point of view and refuse to reciprocate any consideration for it so I’ll let you be.

You didn’t address my earlier question though...I have a feeling you’ve never trained any tailwheel pilots. Am I correct?

For the OP: Doing your training on grass or dirt will make every taildragger more forgiving and less prone to ground looping. Asphalt is the worst. Something like a Cub on slick grass would be the best case scenario for your initial learning IMO. A lot of folks became pilots in that environment during WWII.

You get the test before you can ever truly study the material when learning to fly a taildragger. It’s like trying to teach someone how to catch themselves from falling when they trip. You can’t talk fast enough, it’s something that comes with time and experience. Find a good instructor with a positive attitude towards educating pilots and dive in!

Aryana wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:
Fly the plane until its stopped is BS? Ok then. Yes it can happen at anytime. But you are saying it will happen. And that is BS because it's been proven to be wrong. There are many pilots who never have and never will, mainly because they fly the plane until its tied down and are co distantly paying attention to the task at hand.

The moral of the joke is lost on you. I can see you have some animosity for my point of view and refuse to reciprocate any consideration for it so I’ll let you be.

You didn’t address my earlier question though...I have a feeling you’ve never trained any tailwheel pilots. Am I correct?

For the OP: Doing your training on grass or dirt will make every taildragger more forgiving and less prone to ground looping. Asphalt is the worst. Something like a Cub on slick grass would be the best case scenario for your initial learning IMO. A lot of folks became pilots in that environment during WWII.

You get the test before you can ever truly study the material when learning to fly a taildragger. It’s like trying to teach someone how to catch themselves from falling when they trip. You can’t talk fast enough, it’s something that comes with time and experience. Find a good instructor with a positive attitude towards educating pilots and dive in!

Sorry I didnt see a joke. My bad.
No I haven't trained pilots, but I don't see why that matters. Or maybe all the pilots you train do ground loop so the phrase fits for you?
Whatever. I'm done. I'll go ground loop along with hammer so we can both join the club and no longer have to worry.

Regardless of whether anyone in this god forsaken thread has ever taught tailwheel pilots, it’s a fact that people go their whole lives without ground looping. Maybe it’s luck, but it happens, that’s a undebatable fact. So Aryana’s statement is objectively wrong. Perpetuating that statement to students is just lying to them. I understand the mindset you’re trying to instill (be cautious, fly good, land gooder), but it’s still not true. Telling them everyone will groundloop holds them to a lower standard in my mind. There is a hope of never ground looping. But you gotta give it a bunch of effort and have a bunch of luck.

I should probably let this go but the weather is shit here so my flying job consists of sitting on an FBO couch debating stupid shit on the internet with “humble” people.

asa wrote:Regardless of whether anyone in this god forsaken thread has ever taught tailwheel pilots, it’s a fact that people go their whole lives without ground looping. Maybe it’s luck, but it happens, that’s a undebatable fact. So Aryana’s statement is objectively wrong. Perpetuating that statement to students is just lying to them. I understand the mindset you’re trying to instill (be cautious, fly good, land gooder), but it’s still not true. Telling them everyone will groundloop holds them to a lower standard in my mind. There is a hope of never ground looping. But you gotta give it a bunch of effort and have a bunch of luck..

It's funny how all the people in this thread now arguing the semantics of language and intent/philosophy are pretty much saying the same thing:

The possibility is always there, so resist complacency; stay vigilant.

There are a few ways to express that, aversion to old adages be damned.

Before you know it, Yoda will appear in this thread with an uncharacteristic 5 paragraphs and put everyone to sleep, so let's move on.

Zzz wrote:

asa wrote:Regardless of whether anyone in this god forsaken thread has ever taught tailwheel pilots, it’s a fact that people go their whole lives without ground looping. Maybe it’s luck, but it happens, that’s a undebatable fact. So Aryana’s statement is objectively wrong. Perpetuating that statement to students is just lying to them. I understand the mindset you’re trying to instill (be cautious, fly good, land gooder), but it’s still not true. Telling them everyone will groundloop holds them to a lower standard in my mind. There is a hope of never ground looping. But you gotta give it a bunch of effort and have a bunch of luck..

It's funny how all the people in this thread now arguing the semantics of language and intent/philosophy are pretty much saying the same thing:

The possibility is always there, so resist complacency; stay vigilant.

There are a few ways to express that, aversion to old adages be damned.

Before you know it, Yoda will appear in this thread with an uncharacteristic 5 paragraphs and put everyone to sleep, so let's move on.

Everyone might be saying the same thing but I'M the only one that's right.

We all have something to contribute. Terms, and titles of nobility are different in different countries but teachers teach wherever they reside and whatever their title. I team taught with Butch Washtock in Grande Prairie Alberta. He wasn't an instructor, just a really good teacher. Pilots are a small part of the planet's population. We are more alike than different.

That was hilarious Z!

This is one of the best time wasting threads I've seen in a long time. Tons of useless, social-media driven drivel.

BluNoDav, the answer to your question is MTV's second post.

Zzz wrote:
It's funny how all the people in this thread now arguing the semantics of language and intent/philosophy are pretty much saying the same thing:

The possibility is always there, so resist complacency; stay vigilant.

There are a few ways to express that, aversion to old adages be damned.

Before you know it, Yoda will appear in this thread with an uncharacteristic 5 paragraphs and put everyone to sleep, so let's move on.

The relevance of having experience of teaching someone to become tailwheel proficient really makes you aware of the above as you try to convey it to your students in a variety of ways.

I have no desire to forcing others to the viewpoint of being lifetime students of the craft. The big egos put those folks opposed to it at risk for something far more dangerous than a ground loop. I’ve been to far too many funerals for pilots who thought they were the cream of the crop and knew better than everyone else...right up to the point that they didn’t.

I think the real question here is: which flap setting should be used for ground-loops?

Other good topics are: How much snow can you ground-loop in with bushwheels, and: Ground-looping while water skiing...is it just a stunt or a valuable backcountry skill?

Of course, the preferred footwear for ground-looping is always of interest, as is what should be in your survival vest when ground-looping (personally I'd never ground-loop without a good fixed blade knife).

Is a 9mm good enough for ground-looping, or do you need a magnum revolver to ground-loop safely?

And once the ground-loop is complete, what's the best method for tying the airplane down during a big blow?

So many questions, so many opinions, so little bandwidth.

Seriously though...those are some pretty good questions.

LMAO! This thread is just like a bunch of Anchorage based AK AIR 737 drivers (has to be three or more) howling at each other in the pilot resource center.

You can rest assured I would never allow a stranger start howling at me in public. Those kinds of pilots are a special breed indeed.

If this thread was a conversation between folks in real life, there would be only one loudmouth sharing his unsolicited criticism which would cause others to walk away and scatter.

Zane has a good post on this phenomenon which some folks are oblivious to. They don’t have the benefit of watching people walk away from them in a room and they lack the ability to pick up on the social cues of others in the written format.

Well Ladies & Gentlemen we seem to have finally managed to drag BCP to the level of the various site we've all come to BCP to avoid, can we now return to our regularly scheduled programming..........PLEASE

If you’ve never cut a ureter, you haven’t done enough surgery.

Just another viewpoint.

Hammer wrote:I think the real question here is: which flap setting should be used for ground-loops?

Other good topics are: How much snow can you ground-loop in with bushwheels, and: Ground-looping while water skiing...is it just a stunt or a valuable backcountry skill?

Of course, the preferred footwear for ground-looping is always of interest, as is what should be in your survival vest when ground-looping (personally I'd never ground-loop without a good fixed blade knife).

Is a 9mm good enough for ground-looping, or do you need a magnum revolver to ground-loop safely?

And once the ground-loop is complete, what's the best method for tying the airplane down during a big blow?

So many questions, so many opinions, so little bandwidth.

Seriously though...those are some pretty good questions.

Well there it is, the funniest thing I will see today! Hahaha

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

OK, I got a bag of Doritos (TJ, you'd be proud...)

Carry on!