Backcountry Pilot • Avgas Cost

Avgas Cost

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Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:47 am

Re: Avgas Cost

100LL is down to 6.19 at my airport- no doubt based on the last purchase cost. E10 regular cargas was about 2.39 at the local QFC a couple days ago, with E-zero 87 octane $2.89 at Cenex.
I hope we're on a roll.
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Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:20 pm

Re: Avgas Cost

HotRod, this is in Michigan and a guy on my favorite E85 website posted the pic's he took. They're real and not photo shopped.
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Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Avgas Cost

I'm just about ready to install this ADI unit in my Wagon, just as soon as my new motor is completely broke in. I'm tired of being a slave to the price of 100LL. The break even point won't take long with pump fuel vs 100LL price differential. With long range tanks and fueling out of the slip tank here on the ranch, I can go anywhere in the Idaho/ Montana back country and back home no problem. I run an ADI system on one of my Supercharged Big Block Chevy powerboats running 10lbs of boost for long periods of time with no detonation. I'm sold on this and i know it works.

http://www.flyinpulse.com
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Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:37 pm

Re: Avgas Cost

I'm just about ready to install this ADI unit in my Wagon

That definitely sounds interesting, Be sure and let us know how it works.
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Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:10 pm

Re: Avgas Cost

Double post
Last edited by Terry on Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:11 pm

Re: Avgas Cost

Terry wrote:
180Marty wrote:HotRod, this is in Michigan and a guy on my favorite E85 website posted the pic's he took. They're real and not photo shopped.
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Just for what it's worth. :roll:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-85
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Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:43 pm

Re: Avgas Cost

Terry, you seem to be hung up on corrosion. My 1992 unmodified Toyota pickup using 30% to 50% still runs after 13.5 years. How many vents does your 180 have? Mine has one. Would it be that difficult to seal it up after every flight?
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Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:54 pm

Re: Avgas Cost

180Marty wrote:Terry, you seem to be hung up on corrosion. My 1992 unmodified Toyota pickup using 30% to 50% still runs after 13.5 years. How many vents does your 180 have? Mine has one. Would it be that difficult to seal it up after every flight?




http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_ethanol_fuel_mixtures



Disadvantages to ethanol fuel blends when used in engines designed exclusively for gasoline include lowered fuel mileage, metal corrosion, deterioration of plastic and rubber fuel system components, clogged fuel systems, fuel injectors, and carburetors, delamination of composite fuel tanks, varnish buildup on engine parts, damaged or destroyed internal engine components, water absorption, fuel phase separation, and shortened fuel storage life.[148][148][149][150] Many major auto, marine, motorcycle, lawn equipment, generator, and other internal combustion engine manufacturers have issued warnings and precautions about the use of ethanol-blended gasolines of any type in their engines,[151] and the Federal Aviation Administration and major aviation engine manufacturers have prohibited the use of automotive gasolines blended with ethanol in light aircraft due to safety issues from fuel system and engine damage.[148][149][150][152]

Not just one of my buddy's post on some forum :P
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Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:38 am

Re: Avgas Cost

Terry, you TRULY buy into the propaganda. I have more experience in a lot of things than you do. I'm amazed the methanol system mentioned before has FAA approval and wonder it spraying ethanol would work----it'd sure be cheaper and safer. Oh yeah, you probably don't know the difference between meth and eth, methanol IS very corrosive and, and it'll kill you if you get it in your system. You should see all the aluminum, steel, and plastic in the Toy 4x4. I used to buy methanol when I made homemade biodiesel from french fry grease.
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Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:21 am

Re: Avgas Cost

It seems to me that the auto fuel stc guys should know something about this subject. The ethanol test speaks volumes: http://www.autofuelstc.com/fuel_testing.phtml
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Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:09 am

Re: Avgas Cost

I shouldn't waste my time but doesn't it seem funny the AGE85 is approved and in reality, CourierGuys plane is actually a plane that does the same thing you want to do,FLY, and it works with E10. Some people :?: By the way Nosedragger, what materials are used in the methanol spray kit?
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Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:33 am

Re: Avgas Cost

You got me on that one Marty. I don'teven know what a methanol spray kit looks like.
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Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:36 am

Re: Avgas Cost

All I know is that my lawnmower and honda pumps all quit running when using E10. Dumped the tanks out, put in 91 E0 and they've ran grwat ever since. Don't know if its the ethanol for sure, but I'm sure not willing to put it in my airplane and find out.
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Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:37 am

Re: Avgas Cost

180Marty wrote:HotRod, this is in Michigan and a guy on my favorite E85 website posted the pic's he took. They're real and not photo shopped.
Image
Image
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Wow! There is only 1 E85 station around here and it is usually the same price as 91. There is a large number of government vehicles around here and if they are flexfuel they are required to fill up with E85 if you are within 5miles of a E85 pump. During the summer the station owner jacks up the price of E85 because he knows all the gov vehicles have to use it. It reached $5.95/gal this summer.
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Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:54 am

Re: Avgas Cost

There is a large number of government vehicles around here and if they are flexfuel they are required to fill up with E85 if you are within 5miles of a E85 pump. During the summer the station owner jacks up the price of E85 because he knows all the gov vehicles have to use it. It reached $5.95/gal this summer.

And that is truly sad!!!!!! What more can I say but that it happens other places too.
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Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:29 am

Re: Avgas Cost

180Marty wrote:Terry, you TRULY buy into the propaganda. I have more experience in a lot of things than you do. I'm amazed the methanol system mentioned before has FAA approval and wonder it spraying ethanol would work----it'd sure be cheaper and safer. Oh yeah, you probably don't know the difference between meth and eth, methanol IS very corrosive and, and it'll kill you if you get it in your system. You should see all the aluminum, steel, and plastic in the Toy 4x4. I used to buy methanol when I made homemade biodiesel from french fry grease.


The references I posted was about ethanol.
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Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:47 am

Re: Avgas Cost

You got me on that one Marty. I don'teven know what a methanol spray kit looks like.


INPULSE is an anti-detonant injection (ADI) system controlled by sensors that actively monitor manifold pressure and cylinder head temperatures. The water-methanol injection nozzles, located in the intake manifold, are activated when when the manifold pressure is above 25 inches of mercury or the cylinder head temperature is above 400°F. During cruise flight conditions the system is turned off maximizing savings


From the website of the kit you said you're going to install. I always thought nozzles spray. #-o
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Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:52 am

Re: Avgas Cost

Nosedragger, My apologies, with my blood pressure in an elevated state, I got you and rockhopper mistaken. Sorry :D
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Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:36 am

Re: Avgas Cost

I have a lot of respect for Courierguy and got to thinking what would be really cool is if he worked with the guy in NV and put high compression Zipper cylinders on and set it up to use E85 from the gas station.
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Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:56 am

Re: Avgas Cost

E10, E85, and for all I know E100 may work just great in your car or mine-- but we're talking about airplane fuel here. Maybe there's some guys burning E10 or E85 in their airplanes, but they're not doing it with approval in certificated airplanes. FAA, Cessna, EAA, ad Petersen all say to avoid ethanol like the plague. When it is proven safe and harmless to use in my airplane, and is STC'd and/or otherwise approved, I'll burn all the 79 cent E85 I can get. Until then, I'll stick with E-zero leadfree mogas-- and I'll thank the legislators not to prevent me from being able to purchase it.
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