Jeredp wrote:So, whats the quickest way to get into geound effect? 'Pop' 10 degrees of flaps? Start the roll with 10 or 20? This has been a struggle for me. I feel like no matter what technique i use, my mains are stuck until about 45 mph. Thoughts or suggestions?

Super Cub.

If you have electric flaps, set them first. Pull the yoke all the way back until the nose wheel just comes off. Use just enough back pressure to keep you are the nose wheel just off. When she feels a little buoyant, pull back hard and immediately push forward to keep the mains just off. Wiggle the yoke for and aft proactively and dynamically to stay at two feel altitude until near the obstacle. Zoom just over and level until zoom reserve is regained.

Videos of this teqnique would be worth a thousand words. my flaps are manual

I'm not good enough with computers to find it, but a guy named Patrick has a featured report with video on here somewhere that shows how to pop the manual flaps to get into low ground effect quickly. That technique doesn't require pulling the mains off with dynamic,proactive elevator. However, it can be used in conjunction with dynamic, proactive elevator. And, once of into low ground effect, dynamic,proactive elevator is still needed to maintain low ground effect. Trying to quickly climb out of, or allowing the airplane trim system to fly us out of, low ground effect before attaining at least Vy in low ground effect is the most common errors in both soft and short field takeoffs. Low ground effect works best for all takeoffs. The lower, without rolling any wheels, the better. Every inch we give up is free energy given up that might be needed very soon on down the runway a bit.

Also rich piney's video at the beginning of this thread is an excellent example of the basic low ground effect takeoff that would increase efficiency of any takeoff. Short, soft, crete, PSP, bumps, rocks, weeds, crop, whatever.

Here you go contact: https://www.backcountrypilot.org/stol-t ... ps-takeoff

Thanks ExperimentalAviator,

Two of my three sons are geeks. They kept my stuff going when here and are always available in cyberspace now, so I have been obstinate about learning this stuff.

Contact

Jeredp wrote:So, whats the quickest way to get into geound effect? 'Pop' 10 degrees of flaps? Start the roll with 10 or 20? This has been a struggle for me. I feel like no matter what technique i use, my mains are stuck until about 45 mph. Thoughts or suggestions?

For myself, trying to pop the flaps, unless I'm starting with 10 already, is pretty hard to do and maintain directional control (here EZ Flap will say if I'd buy his product, that wouldn't be an issue, right? ). And frankly, I feel like I have enough to do to maintain control. So I don't worry about getting off the ground sooner than whenever the airplane wants to levitate with 10 flaps preset.

Here's what I do--you use it or not, as you see fit. My P172D has manual flaps, too, plus 180hp Lycoming and CS prop and droopy tips.

First, I set the trim a little nose down, as I find it a lot easier to stay in low ground effect that way, pulling rather than pushing on the yoke. Wherever you normally put your trim for take off, roll the trim wheel one full motion forward. You might have to experiment with this a little, so that you don't get it so much nose down that you can't pull the yoke comfortably. But the idea is that if you relax your pull, the nose will go down, and it's your job not to let that happen. Otherwise the airplane will tend to climb out of ground effect too quickly.

I start with the flaps at 10--I've tried 20, and the airplane doesn't get off any quicker that I can tell, but directional control is a bit more difficult, and the extra drag reduces the acceleration somewhat. 10 works just fine. Raise the nose just enough to barely get the nose tire off the ground--not necessary to have it off more than that. If you raise it too far, you will add unnecessary aerodynamic drag.

As soon as the mains leave the ground, relax a little on the yoke. With the nose down trim, the nose will lower, and you'll skim along just above the ground. The speed will increase, and when you're somewhat faster than Vx, pull back on the yoke and climb on out--I use 85-90 mph unless I need to climb more steeply. Since your Vfe is 100 mph, you'll want to raise the flaps at about that same speed. But there's no reason to raise them sooner than after the obstacles, unless you have a really tall obstacle to clear (172s climb better with 0 flaps). Better to just leave them there at 10 until you've cleared the obstacles, so that you won't accidentally lose altitude raising the flaps too soon.

There's only so much you can do with a 172, but that pretty simple methodology works pretty well for me.

Cary

I never change the trim from cruise, but I like Cary's technique. Very smooth and easy to make happen.

Well, I would have said that, except that the forum admin just crashed through my front door, and is standing over me with three Blackwater contractors holding silenced Mac-10's in my face and telling me to shut the **** up

EZFlap wrote:Well, I would have said that, except that the forum admin just crashed through my front door, and is standing over me with three Blackwater contractors holding silenced Mac-10's in my face and telling me to shut the **** up

I've got the 1st EZ flap on record and it WORKS on manual flaps excellent !
As you taxing down to take off do a mag/ prop/mixture /carb heat check > as you do a rolling turn onto "runway" add full power ,if tricycle gear lift the nose wheel off the ground -as you "feel " the airplane getting "light " pop 20 degrees of flap and airplane will get off ground, roll nose down to being foot or 2 off ground and accelerate to 50-60 mph . Fly the "runway " and go for about 70-80 and start climbing to 80-100 ft. AGL .Don't retract flaps until your clear of all obstructions or maybe pattern altitude. Proceed on course .

EZFlap wrote:Well, I would have said that, except that the forum admin just crashed through my front door, and is standing over me with three Blackwater contractors holding silenced Mac-10's in my face and telling me to shut the **** up

I hate it when he does that...