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ADSB thingy

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Re: ADSB thingy

We've gone from good, too bad, too ugly. It was only ever meant to be a simple question about ADSB compliance, timeline and implementation, now I'm sorry I started the thread.
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Re: ADSB thingy

My intent was not malicious. Just ribbing you Mike. I will stop posting while eating lunch as my penitence.
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Re: ADSB thingy

Latest rumor is Canada will soon require a full 1090ES ADS-B transponder. I know this stuff is very expensive; i put the high end in my airplane. Having said that I can't tell to how much I like the traffic displays. My biggest fear is mid air and the full traffic display is truly amazing. If you have ADS-B out you get a full traffic display on any of the in receiver.
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Re: ADSB thingy

Did a search but did not come up with an answer.
I had planned on installing a uAvionics skybeacon in my C-185 using my KT76A transponder.
I did hear that it does not work so well with the older cavity type Xponders like mine and was wondering if anyone has had an issue with this setup?

Tom
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Re: ADSB thingy

It will work fine but expect to have to turn down the threshold on the uavionix
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Re: ADSB thingy

ktrick01 wrote:Latest rumor is Canada will soon require a full 1090ES ADS-B transponder.


No one has been able to document if Canada requirement is everywhere in Canada or just the bigger airports
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Re: ADSB thingy

a3holerman wrote:…..I had planned on installing a uAvionics skybeacon in my C-185 using my KT76A transponder.
I did hear that it does not work so well with the older cavity type Xponders like mine and was wondering if anyone has had an issue with this setup?


Not sure what you mean by "cavity type transponders"?
I've got a Narco AT150 txp, and have a Tailbeacon pre-ordered.
Emailed with uAvionix and they told me they just submitted their final TSO paperwork to the FAA.
They suggested I go ahead and reserve my rebate,
FWIW the rebate reservation site says you must install within 90 days,
but they actually give you another 60 days for the proofing flight.
So to me this means you have 5 months after you reserve.
Just an FYI in case people are holding off (like I was) on make a reservation
because their preferred ADS-B is back-ordered or not yet approved.
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Re: ADSB thingy

I believe the older xponders used a "cavity" type of output amplifier or something along those lines.
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Re: ADSB thingy

a3holerman wrote:I believe the older xponders used a "cavity" type of output amplifier or something along those lines.


Yes, older tech used a cavity, which requires a warm up prior to transmit. That’s actually the origin of the “standby” on the power switch....to turn off transmit but keep cavity warmed up, so you can go back to x-mit right away.

For reasons that are beyond my pay grade, the KT 76 kept the standby function even after they went solid state.

Early KT 76 were not solid state. I suspect it may be a frequency stabilization issue. Digital signals can and are much more precise and stable.

I have a KT 76 and installed the SkyBeacon. Now if I can be home long enough to fly it.

MTV
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Re: ADSB thingy

You may also recall that in times past it was SOP to select "standby" prior to an ATC requested change to the previously assigned xponder code, I believe this is also no longer required with digital xponder however I regularly catch myself doing it out of habit then requirement, old dog new tricks I guess !!
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Re: ADSB thingy

Mapleflt wrote:You may also recall that in times past it was SOP to select "standby" prior to an ATC requested change to the previously assigned xponder code, I believe this is also no longer required with digital xponder however I regularly catch myself doing it out of habit then requirement, old dog new tricks I guess !!


I'm guessing that this was to prevent mid-switch codes from being transmitted?
For example, squawking 1200, issued 0441--
interim codes briefly transmitted : 0200, 0400, 0440, finally 0441.
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Re: ADSB thingy

hotrod180 wrote:
Mapleflt wrote:You may also recall that in times past it was SOP to select "standby" prior to an ATC requested change to the previously assigned xponder code, I believe this is also no longer required with digital xponder however I regularly catch myself doing it out of habit then requirement, old dog new tricks I guess !!


I'm guessing that this was to prevent mid-switch codes from being transmitted?
For example, squawking 1200, issued 0441--
interim codes briefly transmitted : 0200, 0400, 0440, finally 0441.


Yes, I believe that was and still is the reason for that practice. I suspect we've kind of abandoned that practice cause frankly, if your codes start "twirling" right after ATC gives you a new code, the controller is probably going to realize what's going on.

Used to was, we were supposed to keep our transponders off till we got to hold short line. Now they want them on at all times since at least at some airports it helps ground controllers track aircraft taxiing.

Me, I still turn the transponder to stby when switching codes. Seems to be more professional....or not.

MTV
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Re: ADSB thingy

I heard a long time ago, that if the first two numbers are "7", a warning system, bells whistles etc. are activated. similar to a master warning light/system throughout the system. So, if the ant is pointed at the offender even for one sweep, the activation has to be silenced/deactivated - thus, if stby is selected before switching, accidentally going through the first two numbers will not disrupt the radar room, where things could maybe not use the distraction. Maybe true, maybe not.
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Re: ADSB thingy

I was always taught to go to standby to change squawk codes, as well. The pilot's guide for the ancient "analog" transponder that used to be in my plane either "suggested" or "recommended" this procedure to avoid sending a squawk code you didn't intend to set if you received a "sweep" while changing the code.

But the instructions for my Stratus ESG state that the new squawk code doesn't take effect until 5 seconds after you've pressed the fourth digit. If you enter a wrong digit, within that 5 seconds, you can press the left arrow to move the "cursor" back to the incorrect digit, and re-enter it. If you wait more than 5 seconds, you have to re-enter al four digits.

The Garmin GTX-330EX in my previous airplane was slightly different - the new transponder code took effect upon entry of the fourth digit (no 5-second pause). The King KT-74 manual indicates that it works the same as the Garmin 330ES - immediately after the fourth digit is entered, the new code takes effect.

This would seem to indicate that there is no longer any reason to go to "standby" while changing transponder codes, provided you own one of these fully-digital transponders.
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Re: ADSB thingy

So let's get back to the ADS-B thread and the 1090/978 Mhz stuff along with anonymous mode.

1). Anonymous Mode does not go inactive in 2020. Period. 978 UAT will still fully support it. Prove otherwise with documentation.

2). Anonymous Mode is accomplished through an onboard device randomization of ICAO code and cannot ever be decoded to a unique aircraft indentifier on the outside. It is impossible by the very method of operation. That's why it drives the FAA control freaks nuts. Prove otherwise with documentation.

3). All cerified uAvionix ADS-B devices such as the Skybeacon and Taikbeacon are out only. So what's this about them missing targets on your screen? They can't provide any onboard information at all. They are out only. The Echo does both but that unit is experimental aircraft only and even then has updated software fix for "in". Prove otherwise with documentation.

4). Mexico has no mandate. If you think they do, then you have been listening to the likes of the FAA and the marketing department of ADS-B manufacturers such as Garmin. Same no mandate goes for but one area of Canada. We have Mexican customers who scoff and laugh out loud when the subject comes up. They have zero plans to equip for Mexico and many of these customers are "in the know" politically in their country. Baja or not.

5). All the fancy GTX 345's, 345R's, Stratus ESG's, and L3 units will be uncompliant in Canada due to their lack of diversity. It's funny but the lowly GDL-88 offers diversity but it is UAT not 1090. And in the case of the GDL-82 it won't even support a Mode S transponder or any kind of 1090 Mhz. What are Candians going to do about NavCanada mandating diversity based on a sattelite system just because they are a major investor in the sattelite provider company?

Jim
Last edited by jliltd on Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ADSB thingy

jliltd wrote:So let's get back to the ADS-B thread and the 1090/978 Mhz stuff along with anonymous mode. Timberwolf, MTV and lesuther, where do y'all come up with this stuff? Do you read the rule and delve into the technical details?

1). Anonymous Mode does not go inactive in 2020. Period. 978 UAT will still fully support it. Prove otherwise with documentation.

2). Anonymous Mode is accomplished through an onboard device randomization of ICAO code and cannot ever be decoded to a unique aircraft indentifier on the outside. It is impossible by the very method of operation. That's why it drives the FAA control freaks nuts. Prove otherwise with documentation.

3). All cerified uAvionix ADS-B devices such as the Skybeacon and Taikbeacon are out only. So what's this about them missing targets on your screen? They can't provide any onboard information at all. They are out only. The Echo does both but that unit is experimental aircraft only and even then has updated software fix for "in". Prove otherwise with documentation.

4). Mexico has no mandate. If you think they do, then you have been listening to the likes of the FAA and the marketing department of ADS-B manufacturers such as Garmin. Same no mandate goes for but one area of Canada. We have Mexican customers who scoff and laugh out loud when the subject comes up. They have zero plans to equip for Mexico and many of these customers are "in the know" politically in their country. Baja or not.

5). All the fancy GTX 345's, 345R's, Stratus ESG's, and L3 units will be uncompliant in Canada due to their lack of diversity. It's funny but the lowly GDL-82 amd GDL-88 offer diversity but they are UAT not 1090. And in the case of the GDL-82 it won't even support a Mode S transponder or any kind of 1090 Mhz. What are Candians going to do about NavCanada mandating diversity based on a sattelite system just because they are a major investor in the sattelite provider company?

Jim


Canada does have a mandate in place now, but likely won't touch us little puddle jumpers until at least 2023. Mostly for the big guys.
As for the GTX345, they have the 345D that does support diversity. And skybeacon is working on a 1090 version for us as well, so hopefully that come through. Be nice if they had a dual frequency one for us so we could use the same one to fly down into the US. Guess we'll have to wait amd see!
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Re: ADSB thingy

I was all set to install a Stratus in until I read about the antenna diversity. I reached out to Appareo and they replied that they have no plans to develop one.

So now not sure what to do, back to wait mode but I like flying in the US and it is often hard to sneak by Seattle class C if the weather is poor. May do Uavionix as a temporary fix but sure hate to do this twice.
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Re: ADSB thingy

jliltd wrote:4). Mexico has no mandate. If you think they do, then you have been listening to the likes of the FAA and the marketing department of ADS-B manufacturers such as Garmin.


You are incorrect in claiming that Mexico has no mandate. It is very similar to the US one, but requires 1090 only - no 978. Goes into effect Jan 1, just like the US.

http://dof.gob.mx/normasOficiales/5615/ ... a11_C.html
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Re: ADSB thingy

jliltd wrote:
2). Anonymous Mode is accomplished through an onboard device randomization of ICAO code and cannot ever be decoded to a unique aircraft indentifier on the outside. It is impossible by the very method of operation. That's why it drives the FAA control freaks nuts. Prove otherwise with documentation.


I did my test flight for my rebate in anonymous mode and the FAA still knew exactly who I was when I ordered the performance report 5 mins after landing.

I don't think there's anything anonymous about it to the FAA.
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Re: ADSB thingy

Are you sure you did it right? AIUI, you have to have the “anonymous” switch on and the transponder set to 1200 before you power up the unit. That it, you can’t start it all up, then flip the anon switch.

Or so I read on the Internet; it must be true! :D
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