cozmicharlie wrote:Hey kevin,
Would like to come to the fly in but I have no experience off-airport. This looks like it might be a good location for a rookie to learn (prior to the fly in). Would you recommend that or maybe another location? I would be flying a stock 172 out of KCXP. Very cold in the Carson Valley this morning but it is supposed to be real nice all weekend. Feel free to PM me or you can email me at [email protected]

thanks,
Steve

Steve, I'm kind of a chicken when I fly at these things. I only land where it looks real safe. There's no dishonor in refusing to land in certain places. This isn't a peer-pressure type of group. Land where you feel comfortable landing. That's what I do. Kevin seems to make sure there are strips for every skill level. Even the chickens like me.

aktahoe1 wrote:
Ideas and concerns are welcome. Please express any that you may have.

My only concern is that I'll miss all the fun because I don't have bushwheels... I'm super excited for this!

This lakebed is NOT a no brainer.Better be comfortable operating on and off a 1000ft runway that is not at sea level before showing up with an airplane full of gear. It is not overly difficult by any means but when we measured it ,that 1500ft people say it is, is from bush to bush. If you are not stopped by around 1100ft you will want to be very soon after that.

Dont be concerned about tires being small. We have so many spots to play and land its endless. 18 days out!

Piperpainter has made a great info/fact sheet for us that he is posting shortly. Make certain to print or copy the info down. CTAF freq, airport description, parking instructions. etc.

Lowrider makes a good point. The lake bed is NOT a no brainer, but close to it. This is not sea level and odds are you will be a bit heavy. If your uncertain, make a few passes low and slow to feel it out as you would anywhere else for an off field landing. We have lots of videos and photos on here of lake bed itself with planes landing and departing. Most aircraft stop in about half its length and others use about 3/4 of it. I dont think I have ever seen anyone over run the end unless they landed half way down the strip and not slow enough. We will have the threshold marked for touch down and score cards on hand for all of those landing. I am even looking for a couple of girls to be where the pink and white towels for focus...

AKT

I'll be there with my PA-22/20-160

This lakebed is NOT a no brainer.Better be comfortable operating on and off a 1000ft runway that is not at sea level before showing up with an airplane full of gear.

Amen. It's not hard at all, provided you're spot on planting wheels where you want them. And, it's at about 4,300 MSL, so in a C172 you'll want to plan your take-off carefully to be able to climb out of the little bowl it sits in. Check things out and make notes when you're flying overhead.

Gump

Thanks for all the advice. I'm given it a go on Tuesday morning. If you are available Kevin I am planning on departing KCXP arounf 9:00 am.
Steve

Any recommendations for best tie downs on that lake bed?? It looks like an area where the winds like to play.

Just about anything really. Fly ties work, rebar, you name it. Pretty easy to get most anything into the bed. Have not needed them yet....

Does anyone know:

1) Is water available?
2) Are fly-outs available to any decent food/ice/provision sources?
3) Is dust inevitable?

Alex

Alex wrote:Does anyone know:

1) Is water available?
2) Are fly-outs available to any decent food/ice/provision sources?
3) Is dust inevitable?

Alex

1) Is water available? Probably not. Bring it.

2) Are fly-outs available to any decent food/ice/provision sources? Yes. 10 minutes to Carson. They have a crew car. 5 min drive to Wal Mart

3) Is dust inevitable? yes, but better than mud

Cheers

3) Is dust inevitable? yes, but better than mud

Do you think it will be worse than Caveman? (Or better - just because it's white? )

A

Alex wrote:

3) Is dust inevitable? yes, but better than mud

Do you think it will be worse than Caveman? (Or better - just because it's white? )

A

Probably less dust??????But you never know till you get there.

Hmmm this all sounds very tempting... Weather dependent I will try!

This looks like a lot of fun...but a little far. I don't think I'll make it.

For the uninitiated, please take this in the spirit in which it is offered. You should have flown well within the required parameters at a larger runway to the point where you have absolutely no question about your ability to land or take off in the distances available at this lake.

While you certainly have to get off airport at some point unless you want to be airport bound your whole life...that is not where you start to learn your airplane performance limitations.

I was reading along this thread having a little jealousy party with myself, when I got to Gump's little note about 4300 feet elevation at the lake...

I frankly have no idea what my plane could do at 4300 feet. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be taking off heavy. But until I found an airport of similar altitude and figured out what I could do, I wouldn't be arriving at this fly-in. But my PA-22-150 is a pretty spiffin' little bird, and I'm quite certain that after I had wrung it out somewhere at a similar elevation I'd be ready to go.

The first time I landed on a 1200 foot runway I felt pretty awesome. The first time I tried to take off, which of course wasn't long after that first landing, I got a sense of what a short-field event really is. I was flying a PA-22-135 with a tired engine, wasn't clever enough to notice that the runway has a slight slope, and was taking off slightly uphill. I didn't use the entire runway. But I was not happy about the takeoff. I suspect I used over 800 feet of it. It felt like a failed abort decision rather than a successful takeoff.

So...if you go, go prepared. And make use of the assembled squad of expertise that will be there. But also remember, they aren't flying your airplane...you are.

Like Low Rider said, "That lake is NOT a no-brainer."

It sits in a deceptively shallow looking bowl, and if underpowered, getting in isn't the problem, it's getting out. Really check out the entire valley from the air before you land to see where to go with an anemic rate of climb. You'll have a ridge to the east that doesn't look like much from the lakebed, but if you're only climbing out at a few hundred feet per minute it suddenly gets way bigger than it looked on the ground. Watch out for power lines, and leave yourself an out to turn away. The dirt road leading to the west is relatively level, and gradually descends into lowering terrain and opens into Smith Valley.

Be careful...

Gump

Alex wrote:Does anyone know:

1) Is water available?
2) Are fly-outs available to any decent food/ice/provision sources?
3) Is dust inevitable?

Alex

1.- nope
2. 10 minutes away to a number of options
3. This lake bed is NOT like Black rock. There is minimal dust

Safety is obviously everyone's number 1 concern as it should be. Four years running and we have seen over a 100 different planes and types fly into this lake bed. 90 horses up to 300 horses. Know one has ever had a problem getting in or out.

Just be smart, heads up and pay attention. Departing JC is more difficult IMO.

Read the pilot information in the other thread on here. It's valuable.

AKT

For those of you that might be concerned about flying in and out of the lake bed, I thought I would share my experience as a low time pilot that has never landed off airport. I flew to 3 shot gun shells lake bed last Tuesday in a stock 172 (160 hp). I took the advice of the write-up on BCP (and a number of people that posted advice on this thread) about landing off airport and first practised landings at Carson City (elevation 4700 ft) before heading out to the lake bed. I did some low passes going in all 4 directions and flew around the area of the lake bed. It was in the AM so the DA was not an issue, some wind but not much. I shot a couple low passes over the lake bed and had no problem climbing out in the 172 (full gas but not loaded with gear). I found plenty of lower spots between the hills that I could fly through if needed. If you take off to the east it is pretty flat and you can just follow the road into the valley. The lake bed certainly looks smaller from the air than on the ground but there are no trees so the approach does not have to be too steep. I am confident in the 172 that I could land and climb out. I decided not to land - since I was by myself and the guys at Carson were waiting to do some maintenance on the plane. If you are concerned about the altitude you could fly over to Yerington airport for a couple take-offs and landings (the lake bed is just outside Yerington) before attempting the lake bed. Kevin mentioned some people are driving. I am planning to drive my truck (can't keep a rented plane there all weekend) so if you don't feel comfortable landing at the lake bed, you can land at Yerington and I can pick you up in the truck. Lots of great flying in the Smith and Carson Valley along the Eastern Sierras and plenty of airports to land at if you want to fly around the area - you don't have to be a bush pilot to enjoy it and have a great time.

Steve