I am relatively inexperienced in backcountry flying, but can safely negotiate the easier strips and am learning techniques. A friend was in a crash recently and suffered severe injuries (thankfully he will be OK) and that got me thinking about the possible use of helmets and motorcycle type airbag jackets for backcountry flying. I'm having B.A.S.S harnesses installed. Installing airbags in my 1973 C-182 would cost an arm and a leg, but there is no STC needed to essentially wear an airbag. What does the community think about this? I have included a link to one of the airbag jackets below. There are multiple manufacturers. I do realize there is the question of comfort, and mobility, but survivability would be greatly improved and the severity of injuries would be reduced. As a doctor, these precautions make sense to me but I would appreciate your thoughts.

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/kli ... 6aEALw_wcB

Interesting concept but I lost interest due to the "required" annual or monthly subscription to make it actually function, that's a show stopper for me. In addition since more than 50% of my flying is on floats added a life vest on top of it become unworkable in my opinion.

I fly with a helmet when I am away from hard surfaces .....number one cause of fatal accidents is head trauma...mine is a 56 182 with lots of sharp edges...I know I should fly with it all the time...seatbelts are smart on the expressway and the windy back roads...but sometimes a ball cap seems better...I bought mine from Team Wendy I think and put my own Bose set in it....bought the bright green color so searchers can find the head....my home field is where TacAero trains...they do advanced tail wheel and back country instruction and require helmets

AMSAFE doesn’t have an STC for your 182.....Field approvals....?

Stay safe

I always had airspeed to maneuver to descent forced landing sites and I always wore a helmet and had wide and tight military belts in spray planes. PPE is the smart way to go, but having some airspeed to work with (I was always low) and maneuvering to a workable site really made the big difference in ten or so of 13 engine failures. At Vx or Vy as appropriate, yes, you do need PPE because you have given up maneuverability and getting the nose down becomes life or death with full PPE.

Most of us wear a vest or suit with survival gear in them. Not sure how an airbag vest would work with them. I would opt for a helmet and my survival pack vest over an airbag vest.

Looks like a trap in my opinion.

Frank,

The motorcycle airbag option looks interesting but it is designed for a motorcycle rider. There is a lot of equipment loaded on the back of the vest. You will have to see how it feels sitting in the C182 with it on. If it is not comfortable in the airplane it is not likely to be used. The airbag STC seatbelts look interesting - but I agree expensive.

https://www.amsafe.com/airbag-systems/soars/

The concept of wearing a helmet has been discussed quite a bit on BCP. I need to try the helmet systems out to see how comfortable they feel. Reports from many is that they are very comfortable. I am 6'1" and there is not a lot of room in my 180 given the placement of my current headliner and sun visor. I am removing the headliner and should have some more space soon. I used to snowboard and bike ride. I would never consider doing those activities without a helmet.

BAS - 4 point should restrain systems are a must. It should be the first mod placed in any airplane without them.

Garmin-InReach - or similar satellite communicator - for me is the most important survival equipment in the airplane. Survivability is directly related to the time in which medical care can be delivered in the event of serious injuries. The Gamin-inReach should be fully charged and within a short reach of the pilot. An air activation emergency preset should be readily available since it is possible the plane could crash in an area without a clear view of the SE portion of the sky. A 406 ELT should serve as a backup to the Garmin-inReach.

I agree with Jim about keeping the nose down and preventing a stall/spin. Crash the plane as slow as humanly possible and maybe try moving your feet away from the rudder pedals upon impact since it seems leg fractures are real common in most airplane crashes.



Josh

I guess my question regarding getting the airbag vest is: Would/Could it significantly impede egress after an accident.

MTV

There are very good reasons why helmets are required PPE in all military services for most heli ops and low level tactical fixed wing ops.

A few years ago the Alaska FAA Region published a study of 5 years of fatal & serious injury accidents. The findings were sort of 'No Duh!' About a third of the fatalities and a third of the serious injuries would have been prevented if only aircraft occupants correctly were protected by any one of a helmet, a four or five point harness, or airbags. While not addressed in that study, it's very likely that using two, or even al three would successively improve the odds of coming out of an accident alive and without serious injuries.

I wear a Faro helmet when I my route is away from roads, open fields, and airports. I don't have airbags, but do have 4-point BAS harnesses on both front seats.

Proficiency is really important. If I lose power or have some other reason I have to land NOW it will be wings level and at a slow flying airspeed. And I'll aim for an open area or something with a little give. Even airbags, helmets, and harnesses may not be enough protection if the plane cartwheels or smashes into terra firms in a CFIT.

I have one of the small Inreach minis, I keep it on a lanyard around my neck even on flights between airports, … Keeps me from leaving it turned on in the airplane and will be with me if I have to exit fast.

The best Shoulder harnesses available should be installed in every front seat, and probably every back seat. Period, simply the best protection from severe injury.

Helmets….maybe. The reason I say that (and I have logged thousands of hours wearing helmets in light aircraft) is, there are helmets and there are helmets.

To provide maximum protection, a helmet must be specifically designed and engineered for the kind of head trauma most likely to be encountered.

So, consider a bicycle helmet: Probably very different impacts than likely in a plane crash. A climbing helmet, or one of the many “tactical” helmets out there: Primarily designed to protect from fairly minor impacts….rocks, bumping ones head on an obstacle, a fall…etc.

There aren’t many options when it comes to aviation specific helmets. There are some really good ones, but they are expensive. The last helmet my former employer provided me was custom fitted and cost well over $2500. And that was almost twenty years ago.

Even aviation specific helmets differ with intended application. A fighter pilot wears a helmet to provide communication, mounting for tactical devices and prtotection during an ejection sequence. If he or she is still in the plane when it impacts, helmet won’t help.

On the other hand, helicopter helmets ARE designed to provide survivability in a crash, and a helo crash probably comes much closer to the effects found in a light plane crash.

So, IF you’re contemplating buying a helmet for flying, I’d find a good helicopter design.

Frankly, I don’t think the tactical helmets would do much good in a plane crash. But, if it gives you a warm fuzzy, it probably won’t hurt either. Just don’t assume you’re bullet proof.

Oh, and helmets are hot, and the muss up your Do…..

Me, I wear a ball cap mostly these days, and try real hard not to crash. But if I do, my BAS Harness will help.

MTV

mtv wrote:The best Shoulder harnesses available should be installed in every front seat, and probably every back seat. Period, simply the best protection from severe injury.

Helmets….maybe. The reason I say that (and I have logged thousands of hours wearing helmets in light aircraft) is, there are helmets and there are helmets.

To provide maximum protection, a helmet must be specifically designed and engineered for the kind of head trauma most likely to be encountered.

So, consider a bicycle helmet: Probably very different impacts than likely in a plane crash. A climbing helmet, or one of the many “tactical” helmets out there: Primarily designed to protect from fairly minor impacts….rocks, bumping ones head on an obstacle, a fall…etc.

There aren’t many options when it comes to aviation specific helmets. There are some really good ones, but they are expensive. The last helmet my former employer provided me was custom fitted and cost well over $2500. And that was almost twenty years ago.

Even aviation specific helmets differ with intended application. A fighter pilot wears a helmet to provide communication, mounting for tactical devices and prtotection during an ejection sequence. If he or she is still in the plane when it impacts, helmet won’t help.

On the other hand, helicopter helmets ARE designed to provide survivability in a crash, and a helo crash probably comes much closer to the effects found in a light plane crash.

So, IF you’re contemplating buying a helmet for flying, I’d find a good helicopter design.

Frankly, I don’t think the tactical helmets would do much good in a plane crash. But, if it gives you a warm fuzzy, it probably won’t hurt either. Just don’t assume you’re bullet proof.

Oh, and helmets are hot, and the muss up your Do…..

Me, I wear a ball cap mostly these days, and try real hard not to crash. But if I do, my BAS Harness will help.

MTV

You’ll see me wearing a helmet in my truck before I start wearing one in my airplane.

Also, I have a buddy who has a really nice helmet for himself, but often flies with the other three seats full with un-helmeted passengers. I won’t ever be that guy. Nor will I spend $10,000 on helmets and offer poor fitting helmets to my passengers. A helmet that fits poorly can be more dangerous than no helmet at all.

Considering accident scenarios

-I’m pretty sure I’m not going to commit CFIT at this point.
-Midair collisions are far less likely with ADS-B in and out running
-A stall-spin accident is a possibility, but airspeed and coordination are a top priority
-Structural failure is not likely as I tend to take it pretty easy on my stuff and don’t fly at Vne while yanking on the controls or fly in to thunderstorms

The vast majority of these accident scenarios are unsurvivable no matter what safety gear you have.

This leaves: ground loops, hard landings, forced landings or nose overs as the most likely scenarios for most of us. These are typically lower energy accidents that generally don’t lead to heavy trauma unless the plane does not have shoulder harnesses or heavy baggage is free to fly about.

For these reasons, cargo restraints, passenger restraints and egress are the most important factors that I consider. Stuff flying forward can be very hazardous to cabin occupants. And I want everyone out of the ship ASAP if we ball it up for any reason. Strap on airbags seem very likely to impede evacuation or extraction, which is highly undesirable after a crash.

Egress is instinctively amazingly fast, in my experience. I actually believe I got out fast enough to look back and see myself coming a couple of times. I busted the side window with my head in helmet and dug out of soft dirt between cotton rows when I turned a Pawnee over in those soft rows and the canopy was wedged between them and gas was pouring out of the nose tank. The passenger thing is a consideration. I have had no engine failures with passengers, except crop dusting student in a Cub and we were both wearing helmets. Good point, Scolopax, about providing equal protection, or better, to passengers. And we should wear a helmet in out autos too, but we don't.

The injuries you’re most concerned with are head trauma, long bone fractures, and burns. The vest doesn’t help with any of those.

Scolopax makes great points regarding passengers. I insisted that the folks who flew with me regularly in missions that required helmets got fitted for their own helmets, regardless of cost. He's right: An ill fitting helmet is really miserable to wear.

And, a pilot gets in and puts on a helmet, and passengers don't have a helmet??? What message does that send?

MTV

Thanks for all the replies. If I use a helmet, everyone else on the plane will be provided with one. Sizes vary knowing our friends will have one large and one medium in reserve for the back seaters, and one for my wife. I’ll have to do some more research regarding the inflatable vests and the airbag seatbelts. As mentioned, they may impede egress. For now I’ll likely go with the bass four point restraints, I have not made my mind up on the twist dial or usual buckles. There’s a rather dramatic video on the AMSAFE airbag seatbelt website showing the difference between four-point restraints and the airbag system. The airbag system certainly does reduce movement of the head and neck which it seems to me would be important. I have even thought of using a Paul type inflatable personal flotation device for critical stages of flight in the back country where if a crash was imminent the pull of a cord will inflate it. There’s a valve on those to deflate them quickly.

mtv wrote:And, a pilot gets in and puts on a helmet, and passengers don't have a helmet??? What message does that send?

MTV

I've given that some thought, as I am probably going to get a helmet at some point in the near future. Ultimately, I think I can explain to my passengers that I have the helmet specifically for when I'm landing in new-to-me areas where I feel the risk is somewhat higher. I will only take passengers into areas that I know well, yet my headset is integrated into my helmet, thus I have to wear it even when the risk is low. Maybe a convoluted explanation, but an honest one based on why I want a helmet. When I'm landing on a new ridge, it might be nice to add a level of protection to my noggin until I'm absolutely sure that there aren't any hidden bumps or troughs that I didn't see from the air.

Looking at the Amsafe video it seemed they compared a three pointer harness to their three-point airbag system.… I was thinking of purchasing the BAS retractable four point harnesses for my airplane, did not realize that it is only $1200 more to get the amsafe three-point harness with airbag and retractable shoulder strap for both seats, ($2800 versus $1600)

For quick egress it seems the airbag is only about 12 inches deep so if belts held and seat did not sign into panel egress should still be quick,… If belts did not hold, might be nice having that airbag.

The belt needs to be really tight. Don't want the piano even starting to move. And I have found military wide belts most comfortable in a crash. Spread that inertia load out on our body a bit. And again as slow as possible is the really big help. That extra speed for grandma really hurts getting it stopped.

OK so do what do you all think about the airbag seatbelt system? Would you go for B.A.S. harnesses or the AMSAFE airbag belts?
https://www.amsafe.com/