Backcountry Pilot • Vans RV-15

Vans RV-15

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Re: Vans RV-15

corefile wrote:Yes you can rock a Cessna, you can rock any GA aircraft if you have a dude on each wingtip, but that was not the point (or yardstick) of what they are showing in that video. If you were to do that in a Cessna it would keep rocking back and forth a bit after you let go from rocking the wings. Its what’s causes the Cessna to waddle or rock side to side when going over big holes and rocks. It’s the nature of a sprung gear, it’s “simple physics”. The downward force creates energy, that energy is returned as upward force and there is nothing to absorb that return energy so you get the Cessna bounce, or waddle, you are transferring some of that energy back and forth between the left and right gear. What they are showing in that video is that when there is a downward force on the gear, the resulting upward force, or energy if you will, is absorbed by the shocks. So you don’t get the bounce of a true Cessna style sprung gear, or the waddle you get from going over rough terrain. A pint sized Cessna would 1) probably had the opposite tire come off the ground as the gear has no pivot point, and would act more as a lever 2) have keep rocking back and forth after they let go, where as the rv-15 did not, it pretty much came back to straight and level with no rocking motion, Much like how the oleo gear absorbs that return energy. The jury is out on how durable this new design will be, from the pictures the gear box looks substantial, but good on Vans for pushing the envelope.

Those are interesting thoughts, probably a good interpretation.

Listening to what little background commentary I could heard on the video, I assumed they were showing how much the shocks travelled (not very much more than sprung gear).

I am sure as more information emerges and more videos of landings becomes available, we'll soon get a clear picture.

It certainly looks like they are pushing the boundaries in this gear design, which I respect.
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Re: Vans RV-15

Stinson’s also have pivoting main gear with internal shock absorbers… will be interesting to see how Vans implemented them.

Here is the Stinson gear:
Image
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Re: Vans RV-15

SmokeyTheBear wrote:Stinson’s also have pivoting main gear with internal shock absorbers… will be interesting to see how Vans implemented them.

Here is the Stinson gear:
Image


If you look at the image that has been posted of the RV-15 prototype sitting in the hangar on it's large wheels you can see the top of the gear leg. It appears that the leg curves almost vertically inside the cabin past the pivot point. I'll wager that the shocks are mounted near horizontally under the pilots feet. Similar attachment to the Stinson but with the shocks horizontal, we'll see.
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Re: Vans RV-15

Varanger wrote:As an LSA pilot, I'd be very jealous if it wasn't for us getting thissoon :)

Big fowler flaps? Check
Cantilever wing? Check
Slats? Check

I still think the RV-15 is a better looker, though. And probably significantly beefier as well.


Nothing beats this wing at 4:40. https://youtu.be/5Olmfj7O4Ec

Imagine this RV-15 with those electric slats, double slotted flaps, and a PBS TP100 up front. My only complaint with the look of the RV-15 is the short stubby nose.
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Re: Vans RV-15

Jetcat3 wrote:
Varanger wrote:As an LSA pilot, I'd be very jealous if it wasn't for us getting thissoon :)

Big fowler flaps? Check
Cantilever wing? Check
Slats? Check

I still think the RV-15 is a better looker, though. And probably significantly beefier as well.


Nothing beats this wing at 4:40. https://youtu.be/5Olmfj7O4Ec

Imagine this RV-15 with those electric slats, double slotted flaps, and a PBS TP100 up front. My only complaint with the look of the RV-15 is the short stubby nose.


Now we're derailing, and I don't think we're comparing apples to apples here...

The Norden is a tandem, tube-and-fabric, extreme STOL-oriented aircraft that's slowish in cruise. The STOL Cruiser and the RV-15 are all metal, side-by-side, fast in cruise, yet (probably!) still very capable STOL aircraft.

The Norden is very nice, don't get me wrong!! But it is kind of a niche aircraft. If you're in the market for an RV-15 or a STOL Cruiser you won't consider a Norden and vice versa. Not that I think the STOL Cruiser is really comparable to the RV-15, but it's in my opinion the closest new UL/LSA thing that will hit the market here in Europe.
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Re: Vans RV-15

Mapleflt wrote: I can't imagine for one second that Van's has fitted the RV-15 with a traditional RV airfoil. .....


What's wrong with the "traditional RV airfoil"?
Van's website sez their 2 place aircraft (except the RV9) use the NACA 230 airfoil.
Seems good and thick like a STOL wing should be.
I don't have any time in RV's but it seems like they cruise pretty fast & land relatively slow--
Van's ads used to talk about their "4:1 performance ratio", with the top speed being 4x the stall speed.
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Re: Vans RV-15

Varanger wrote:
Jetcat3 wrote:
Varanger wrote:As an LSA pilot, I'd be very jealous if it wasn't for us getting thissoon :)

Big fowler flaps? Check
Cantilever wing? Check
Slats? Check

I still think the RV-15 is a better looker, though. And probably significantly beefier as well.


Nothing beats this wing at 4:40. https://youtu.be/5Olmfj7O4Ec

Imagine this RV-15 with those electric slats, double slotted flaps, and a PBS TP100 up front. My only complaint with the look of the RV-15 is the short stubby nose.


Now we're derailing, and I don't think we're comparing apples to apples here...

The Norden is a tandem, tube-and-fabric, extreme STOL-oriented aircraft that's slowish in cruise. The STOL Cruiser and the RV-15 are all metal, side-by-side, fast in cruise, yet (probably!) still very capable STOL aircraft.

The Norden is very nice, don't get me wrong!! But it is kind of a niche aircraft. If you're in the market for an RV-15 or a STOL Cruiser you won't consider a Norden and vice versa. Not that I think the STOL Cruiser is really comparable to the RV-15, but it's in my opinion the closest new UL/LSA thing that will hit the market here in Europe.


I’m talking about the wing, it’s all metal. I felt if the RV-15 was going to push the operating envelope forward it would need electric slats and double slotted flaps. Instead we got a bit bigger and beefier RANS S-21 no?
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Re: Vans RV-15

Jetcat3 wrote:
Nothing beats this wing at 4:40. https://youtu.be/5Olmfj7O4Ec

Imagine this RV-15 with those electric slats, double slotted flaps, and a PBS TP100 up front. My only complaint with the look of the RV-15 is the short stubby nose.


I'm going to send an invoice to Pasquale for your posts.
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Re: Vans RV-15

I’m talking about the wing, it’s all metal. I felt if the RV-15 was going to push the operating envelope forward it would need electric slats and double slotted flaps. Instead we got a bit bigger and beefier RANS S-21 no?[/quote]

Who said anything about “pushing the operating envelope”? Vans certainly didnt. Consider who will be building these things. Then add a lot of complexity to a kit that might lower the stall speed a few mph. Not worth it.

I’ve never gotten the feeling that Vans tries to push the envelope in performance with any of their kits. Which is likely why there are so many out there.

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Re: Vans RV-15

Zzz wrote:
Jetcat3 wrote:
Nothing beats this wing at 4:40. https://youtu.be/5Olmfj7O4Ec

Imagine this RV-15 with those electric slats, double slotted flaps, and a PBS TP100 up front. My only complaint with the look of the RV-15 is the short stubby nose.


I'm going to send an invoice to Pasquale for your posts.


\:D/ Ha!!! Well played! =D>
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Re: Vans RV-15

A short stubby nose is what I want for viz purposes while landing off airport, what it looks like outside the plane is more of a form follows function thing.
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Re: Vans RV-15

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Sitting at Oshkosh today
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Re: Vans RV-15

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Re: Vans RV-15

IO-390. 145 knots TAS. Stabilator tail. Where do I sign?
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Re: Vans RV-15

If you are old enough to have seen what it was like when the long-ez, glasair came out along with the RV4. I think this RV15 will be bigger than that. With way over priced 70 year old certified faa dealing BS type aircraft now, who would'nt get in line. I have been lucky to have lots of aircraft in my time. One rule I have now is, I won't own one older than me (I'm 58). It has been real difficult to find an aircraft that fits the bill. Roomy, fast, high wing, tailwheel, EXPERIMENTAL. I love it, I want one, I'm going to have one. :D
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Re: Vans RV-15

The airfoil is not the same airfoil used on other RVs.

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Re: Vans RV-15

It's disappointing that Vans did not use the Cessna airfoil with the Sportsman STOL cuff on the RV-15

If a Cessna 185 stalls at 37 knots while carrying 3300 lbs and still cruises at 145 knots ...

Imagine what the RV-15 could have done with lessor wing loading and a higher power loading?

I think Vans missed an opportunity to have better performance and handling, using well proven low tech.
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Re: Vans RV-15

Looks like a cool thing, marketed as competition for a 180. Grand idea, but I don't think so. It may have good useful load, and be moderately fast, and land fairly short, but a Skywagon it is not.

With the projected price I saw somewhere of $170k plus avionics and paint, its in the price range of a damn nice 180. With some assembly required! I had read somewhere that the wings kits were offered for sale at KOSH this year with delivery about the end of the year. Empanage kit for sale January 2026 with delivery July 2026 with fuselage kits for sale July 2026 with delivery end of 2026. I wonder what the engine and prop will cost another year and a half down the road? Will there be some price creep by the time you can get all the pieces?

Sounds like in a best case scenario that the first completed kits will be spring of 2027.
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Re: Vans RV-15

The wing kits can be ordered now. I didn't catch when deliveries would start. They pointed out that the fuselage and it's appurtenances are still in flex, and changes will happen beffore it's fixed in design.

They did away with the overhead flap handle, replaced it with a ver Cessna like big Johnson Bar on the center floor. That, they said, would probably be final. I didn't get to ask why they changed that.....

A friend who owns and built a RV-14 says Lycoming is now offering IO-390s for near $90 But, apparently, Vans can get them for around $65K. Add a good CS prop and you're adding $20K or so.... This will not be a cheap airplane. That said, within days of OSH starting, they'd sold over 50 wing kits.

I really like the looks of this airplane. It is NOT going to be a 180, by any stretch, and comparing the two seems irrelevant to me. This is a significantly smaller airplane, and it will no doubt be somewhat lighter. Having watched them mess around with that gear shock absorption system, I'm a beliver that this might be a major game changer in that regard. Also, this airplane is small enough that one or two people can muscle it around. Try that in a late 180 on rough ground. And, this is a true two place and all your stuff airplane, which in fact is the way most use a 180.

I would love to fly one of these things, frankly. There's a lot of whining in the off road camp about them using shorter wings, but apparently those folks have never flown a healthy Maule. I'm not a hard core Maule fan, but even with a relatively small wing, they perform. I think this thing will do better.

I'm excited to see one of these out and about one of these days. It may not be a game changer necessarily, but it looks to me that it has a lot of potential.
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Re: Vans RV-15

I think it’s apparent that they used the early 180 as somewhat of a template for their performance goals. If they can come through on their 140 ktas and 900 + useful load, they might have a great 2 place airplane in the 15. Those 2 “goals” still remain to be seen and are critical to the airplanes viability in that market niche. The 15’s cabin is 6” wider than an early Skywagon and 6” longer (instrument panel to station 140, before ext. baggage). Personally, I wish they would’ve designed it for at least 3 seats but they seem to be saying no to a rear Jumpseat (headroom?).

Evidently, the production fuselage has yet to fly and is the holdup on finalizing the performance claims. I think a guy would have over $250k into it which is a lot of dough; but, a 2027+ RV15 with brand new everything and a repairman’s certificate in your wallet…..might be more logical than a 75 year old early 180, for some people. Definitely not a Skywagon but they quit making those 45 years ago. I’ve owned an early 180 and currently a 1976 185. I absolutely love skywagons but I gotta admit that my itch to build another airplane has me very interested in the RV15.
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