mpm wrote:I think it’s apparent that they used the early 180 as somewhat of a template for their performance goals. If they can come through on their 140 ktas and 900 + useful load, they might have a great 2 place airplane in the 15. Those 2 “goals” still remain to be seen and are critical to the airplanes viability in that market niche. The 15’s cabin is 6” wider than an early Skywagon and 6” longer (instrument panel to station 140, before ext. baggage). Personally, I wish they would’ve designed it for at least 3 seats but they seem to be saying no to a rear Jumpseat (headroom?).

Evidently, the production fuselage has yet to fly and is the holdup on finalizing the performance claims. I think a guy would have over $250k into it which is a lot of dough; but, a 2027+ RV15 with brand new everything and a repairman’s certificate in your wallet…..might be more logical than a 75 year old early 180, for some people. Definitely not a Skywagon but they quit making those 45 years ago. I’ve owned an early 180 and currently a 1976 185. I absolutely love skywagons but I gotta admit that my itch to build another airplane has me very interested in the RV15.

Mike

I’m willing to bet the 15 will be a 140KT airplane and will have 900+ on the useful load. No doubt there was a lot of influence from various aircraft, but I agree, the Skywagon was a highly influential model in some ways. There’s a lot for me to like about it, and potentially pairing it up with a Deltahawk Diesel (this is my own opinion, there is nothing in the works from Vans on this) it could be somewhat revolutionary. I’m very tempted to build again, but the 15 just won’t replace what my 185 can do. With the 15 rolling out, I’m optimistic that the next Vans model will be the 18.5, competing directly with the 185, well, as much as a experimental can compete with a certified aircraft.

StillLearning wrote: Looks like a cool thing, marketed as competition for a 180. Grand idea, but I don't think so. It may have good useful load, and be moderately fast, and land fairly short, but a Skywagon it is not......

Somebody on another forum I frequent coined the phrase "skywagon light" for the RV15.
I think he nailed it.
I was a skywagon fan long before I actually owned one.
I was hoping for a "skywagon light" when I bought a C150/150 taildragger,
but the lack of interior space & useful load limited it's utility too much for my taste.
I finally bought a 180 about 11 years ago,
it's more airplane than I need but I sure do like it!
I'm sure that a "mini-me" version like the RV15 will be popular.
And considering the asking prices I've seen for some high-end Carbon Cubs & pimped out skywagons,
I don't think a final cost of $200-250K will be much of an impediment.
What do you think it costs to build a Carbon Cub, or worse yet a Cyclone?

The IO-390 seems like a really odd choice for any new build airplane. It costs significantly more to both purchase new and overhaul than a Continental 550 that has 50% more power. The 390 also does not run well LOP. Sure, it's 150 pounds lighter, but your power to weight ratio is much better on the 550 powered plane.

The newer SR20's use the 390 and I just can't see any advantage whatsoever over the SR22 that has the 550. If you pull the throttle back in the 550 you can get the same fuel flow and speed as the 390, but of course nobody does that.

Ross4289 wrote:The IO-390 seems like a really odd choice for any new build airplane. It costs significantly more to both purchase new and overhaul than a Continental 550 that has 50% more power. The 390 also does not run well LOP. Sure, it's 150 pounds lighter, but your power to weight ratio is much better on the 550 powered plane.

The newer SR20's use the 390 and I just can't see any advantage whatsoever over the SR22 that has the 550. If you pull the throttle back in the 550 you can get the same fuel flow and speed as the 390, but of course nobody does that.

150 pounds waaaay out front dramatically changes the character of most aircraft. I really don't think this design was ever intended to replace or compete with a Cessna. I mean, you can always argue that ithey both have two wings, three wheels, and therefore this is like the Cessnas....

I'm betting the horsepower in this airplane, if it winds up as light as I suspect it can be, will be more than enough ummmph to get the work done. More weight on the nose often really spoils the flying character of the airplane.

MTV

"More weight on the nose often really spoils the flying character of the airplane."

True, until you put a lot of weight in the back.

51 mph stall speed. Gonna be more like an RV than a STOL aircraft. Bearhawk Patrol stalls at 36 mph with 150 mph cruise. Easy choice for me.

skyward II wrote:51 mph stall speed. Gonna be more like an RV than a STOL aircraft. Bearhawk Patrol stalls at 36 mph with 150 mph cruise. Easy choice for me.

I own a Bearhawk Patrol and a 185. I obviously consider the patrol my “stol” machine but the 185 is simply a more viable all around airplane. If the performance numbers come through, I would consider the RV15 to be similar to a “180/185 Light”, not anywhere similar to a Patrol. The Patrol is amazing but I don’t think it will do 150 mph unless it’s on 600s, has a constant speed prop, and is running full tilt. Mine is fixed pitch, currently on 35s, and does 110 mph at 2300 rpm. Definitely not screaming but extremely respectable for that configuration. When talking cruise speed, it blows away a cub. It suffers the same limitations regarding cargo that most tandem 2 seaters suffer, simply not enough available volume. It needs a belly pod. The Bearhawk Patrol is amazing but it is not in the same market niche that the RV15 will occupy. I honestly believe the 15 will be a far superior all around airplane due to its similarities to the Gold Standard Skywagon.

I was at AirVenture this year and the RV15 had a mob around it all week long. I managed to get one shot that shows most of the plane. They've finalized the wing design and started selling kits for it at the show. There is no shortage of interest despite the significant cost of a full build. I'm just glad I bought my Maule when I did. It cost less than half as much as a nicely completed RV-15 and I was flying it the day after my purchase. It does everything I want it to and has been an affordable plane to own and operate. Still, Vans will sell a lot of RV-15 kits and I suspect the owners will love their planes. I do like the spring gear with adjustable shocks hidden in the fuselage.

I think the RV15 is more like a modern super 170. The wing looks interesting. Tempted to buy a wing kit and put them on a cub fuselage.

daedaluscan wrote:I think the RV15 is more like a modern super 170. The wing looks interesting. Tempted to buy a wing kit and put them on a cub fuselage.

There was a plane I saw online a few years ago called the Badlands Traveller,
it was a Cub-type fuselage fitted with C150 wings.
The owner (not builder) put together a video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSvCmPriyg8

It seemed like a real performer-- STOL like a cub, but faster.
There's a crusty old set of C150 wings laying out behind a guy's hangar at my airport-
every time I walk by & look at them, I remember that video.

AOPA flies the RV-15:
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... dium=email

Saw the title, "Backcountry Beast". I didn't read the article, title turned me off, but from everything else I've read, I'd hardly call it a beast.

I think it is a great thing, and I'd love to try one out. But out of my price range, and I'm impatient. I don't think we'll see any finished kits until early 2027.

Agree, “backcountry beast” as a title for the article illustrates just how far removed AOPA is from being knowledgeable regarding such flying. It appears to be a potentially very good aircraft, which I am personally interested in building; but, it is probably not in the “Beast” category.

hotrod180 wrote:

daedaluscan wrote:I think the RV15 is more like a modern super 170. The wing looks interesting. Tempted to buy a wing kit and put them on a cub fuselage.

There was a plane I saw online a few years ago called the Badlands Traveller,
it was a Cub-type fuselage fitted with C150 wings.
The owner (not builder) put together a video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSvCmPriyg8

It seemed like a real performer-- STOL like a cub, but faster.
There's a crusty old set of C150 wings laying out behind a guy's hangar at my airport-
every time I walk by & look at them, I remember that video.

The original Badlands Traveler design used 172 wings. A few other with videos on YouTube. Todd Ison , Gravity Knight Flying, has pretty good series about his build and performance.

I'm keeping an eye on it. Though I also still have the plans sitting here for a Bearhawk. I'm curious to learn more about how Van's is going to do floats with the 15.

mpm wrote:

skyward II wrote:51 mph stall speed. Gonna be more like an RV than a STOL aircraft. Bearhawk Patrol stalls at 36 mph with 150 mph cruise. Easy choice for me.

I own a Bearhawk Patrol and a 185. I obviously consider the patrol my “stol” machine but the 185 is simply a more viable all around airplane. If the performance numbers come through, I would consider the RV15 to be similar to a “180/185 Light”, not anywhere similar to a Patrol. The Patrol is amazing but I don’t think it will do 150 mph unless it’s on 600s, has a constant speed prop, and is running full tilt. Mine is fixed pitch, currently on 35s, and does 110 mph at 2300 rpm. Definitely not screaming but extremely respectable for that configuration. When talking cruise speed, it blows away a cub. It suffers the same limitations regarding cargo that most tandem 2 seaters suffer, simply not enough available volume. It needs a belly pod. The Bearhawk Patrol is amazing but it is not in the same market niche that the RV15 will occupy. I honestly believe the 15 will be a far superior all around airplane due to its similarities to the Gold Standard Skywagon.

I’m running 600’s (at least through phase 1 testing) and Hartzell Trailblazer prop, O 360. I’ll post my findings when ready to fly next July (fingers crossed).

StillLearning wrote:Saw the title, "Backcountry Beast". I didn't read the article, title turned me off, but from everything else I've read, I'd hardly call it a beast.

I think it is a great thing, and I'd love to try one out. But out of my price range, and I'm impatient. I don't think we'll see any finished kits until early 2027.

You don't have to read anything.....there's a very nicely done video there. In case you weren't aware, part of the strategy of media is to get your attention.....they obviously did.

I blew past that and watched the video. Dave isn't a backcountry pilot, but in poking that plane around, if you're observant, the plane and the video tell you a good bit about that airplane.

Frankly, I think a lot of "backcountry pilots" are seriously underestimating that plane.

mtv wrote:

StillLearning wrote:Saw the title, "Backcountry Beast". I didn't read the article, title turned me off, but from everything else I've read, I'd hardly call it a beast.

I think it is a great thing, and I'd love to try one out. But out of my price range, and I'm impatient. I don't think we'll see any finished kits until early 2027.

You don't have to read anything.....there's a very nicely done video there. In case you weren't aware, part of the strategy of media is to get your attention.....they obviously did.

I blew past that and watched the video. Dave isn't a backcountry pilot, but in poking that plane around, if you're observant, the plane and the video tell you a good bit about that airplane.

Frankly, I think a lot of "backcountry pilots" are seriously underestimating that plane.

I just watched the video and yes, it seems to be a capable aircraft for sure. They will sell a lot of them. Too bad a test for most of us is 2 years, minimum, away.

daedaluscan wrote:I think the RV15 is more like a modern super 170. The wing looks interesting. Tempted to buy a wing kit and put them on a cub fuselage.

I think you've nailed it, it's a new DIY Super 170.

Anyone comparing the RV-15 to a 185 will be sorely disappointed, based on what I've seen so far. They are just too different, in too many regards.

Vans are entering a crowded market place for 4-seater DIY bush plane alternatives.

You've got the Bushliner for those who can afford it.
The Bearhawk 5 is a true Cessna 185 competitor which is superior is many regards, but not all.
Bearhawk 4 is very competitive with a 180 and aspects of a 185, like volume and STOL, without the 185 cruise speed.
Murphy is still making the Moose, which occupies the same space and is very competitive with a 185
SQ4 Boss was a thing, unsure of status.
There are others too.

Not to mention the Cessna 170s, Maules, Piper Pacer, etc etc which are still common competitors and can be bought immediately, probably be had as less cost than a full build with new materials for most of the above aircraft.

I agree they will sell a lot of RV-15, no doubt. But they are not the first to the table.

The RV-15 selling points will be the all metal construction which some people favour (not all), ease of build (eventually, once they work all the kinks out - probably after 2030...), and unmatched factory support.

Battson wrote:

daedaluscan wrote:I think the RV15 is more like a modern super 170. The wing looks interesting. Tempted to buy a wing kit and put them on a cub fuselage.

I think you've nailed it, it's a new DIY Super 170.

Anyone comparing the RV-15 to a 185 will be sorely disappointed, based on what I've seen so far. They are just too different, in too many regards.

Vans are entering a crowded market place for 4-seater DIY bush plane alternatives.

You've got the Bushliner for those who can afford it.
The Bearhawk 5 is a true Cessna 185 competitor which is superior is many regards, but not all.
Bearhawk 4 is very competitive with a 180 and aspects of a 185, like volume and STOL, without the 185 cruise speed.
Murphy is still making the Moose, which occupies the same space and is very competitive with a 185
SQ4 Boss was a thing, unsure of status.
There are others too.

Not to mention the Cessna 170s, Maules, Piper Pacer, etc etc which are still common competitors and can be bought immediately, probably be had as less cost than a full build with new materials for most of the above aircraft.

I agree they will sell a lot of RV-15, no doubt. But they are not the first to the table.

The RV-15 selling points will be the all metal construction which some people favour (not all), ease of build (eventually, once they work all the kinks out - probably after 2030...), and unmatched factory support.

RV-15 is a 2 seater, it isn’t really direct competition for any of those planes, especially that vaporware machine the bushliner. It most closely competes with the Rans S-21 and the Sling highwing.

It’s going to make a great floatplane someday methinks, that’s what I’m most excited about.