To add to my previous post-
Of course there are many many variations of the weights and fuel burns and speed. All Cessnas are set up a little different and all pilots like to run them their own way. I was going with a general average and using my personal experience.
I have flown/been in a 180hp 170B that won't fly faster than about 120mph and I've flown/been in 4 of them that will cruise at 130-135+mph.
All with various tire sizes, wing stol kits, prop sizes. Real scale weights in the mid 1300 range.
Take a look at the post with real world 180 weights to see some good variation there.
https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/the- ... read-19604
Sure 180s can go faster and burn less gas if you run them differently or they are set up different, but then look at Dave Stoots or John Nielson's speeds and fuel burn with a 170 and you can see there is a large range for both birds.

As for finding a good deal Dirt911 they pop up every so often and get bought quickly. Another good way to find one is to cruise the airports and seek the 170 owners out. Many will entertain offers and are thinking about selling but haven't posted them.

Alaskan Tin Can wrote:... Another good way to find one is to cruise the airports and seek the 170 owners out. Many will entertain offers and are thinking about selling but haven't posted them.

Ya...offer me $150K for my 170B+p and I'll shake your hand so damn hard your filling will shake out, and I don't even have any interest in selling.

After a week or so consideration, an early '56-'59 180 appears to be a better plane for my mission. The increased cruise will be a major benefit on my ~monthy 200nm trip north, and for the amount of XC I plan on doing this year. The ability to fly and improve over the year is more enticing than 18+ mo in the shop building a 170. If I ever want to move back down, that should be no problem.

Thanks for all your input on this thread, and for turning me on to the Skywagon! I will begin my search in earnest, money in hand February if any of you all have any leads. Looking forward to it!

(and I'll probably end up keeping the Champ for 'fun' flying....)

iiAtlas wrote:...an early '56-'59 180 appears to be a better plane for my mission.

who'd a thunk it

asa wrote:

iiAtlas wrote:...an early '56-'59 180 appears to be a better plane for my mission.

who'd a thunk it

But your heart is still with the 170 correct

Mapleflt wrote:But your heart is still with the 170 correct

Lol! Yes... I have no doubt the 170 would be a SWEET bird. Just can't turn down the potential of a 180... at least at this time. Easier to go 180 -> 170 than 170 -> 180, or at least I hope!!!

Ok your forgiven; continue as planned but don't lose the faith, round tails rule !!!

I’m more or less looking for what sounds like a similar airplane to you, but over the week or two of this thread, I think I have convinced myself to start with a standard 170b and if I decide I want to go faster, to look to trade up.

An 0-300 170 will probably be good enough for my mission, cheaper to buy, and I can burn auto gas (the store between my house and airport sells no etoh gas). Also one is more likely to turn up locally.

Of course if the right 0-360 170, 180 or even an early 182 appears in my search, I could change my mind again...

Just what you need.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That may indeed be the "ultimate 180", but I'd rather have a plain jane one with a standard 470 for about half the dough.
A guy who wants to go swimming doesn't have to jump in the deep end first.

hotrod180 wrote:...I'd rather have a plain jane one with a standard 470....

Yeah, why would anyone want to take off shorter, climb faster, fly higher and faster, and have a better safety margin. That would be so dumb.

If you can afford it Atlas, go for it. The only thing I would say would be to only go down this road if you have a realistic understanding of the responsibility and hazards of the machine. 300hp can bite you fast, especially if you only have flown light tube/fabric birds.

Seems like you are a low time pilot with even lower TW time. Combine this with youth, eagerness and money, and we tend to get a dangerous combination. Find good mentors and understand your limitations and you should be ok. Remember, PPL thru 500 hrs is the most dangerous time flying... Add a TW into the mix and it can be sporty!

You will love a Skywagon! (just dont crash it). LOL

Mapleflt wrote:Ok your forgiven; continue as planned but don't lose the faith, round tails rule !!!

Phew! I'm with you there... the round tail is a sweetheart.

Dirt911 wrote:I’m more or less looking for what sounds like a similar airplane to you, but over the week or two of this thread, I think I have convinced myself to start with a standard 170b and if I decide I want to go faster, to look to trade up.

An 0-300 170 will probably be good enough for my mission, cheaper to buy, and I can burn auto gas (the store between my house and airport sells no etoh gas). Also one is more likely to turn up locally.

Of course if the right 0-360 170, 180 or even an early 182 appears in my search, I could change my mind again...

If I didn't have my 172, I'd jump on an 0-300 170 in a heart beat! Sadly it feels too much like a side/down step from my current setup, as I'm sure it wouldn't have a 430W, GTX 345, GNC 250 XL, engine monitor etc etc.

Tom wrote:

Just what you need.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Saw that and speaking with the owner... thanks for passing along! I actually don't know if I want a 300HP Pponk?? Maybe I'm crazy.... maybe thats a conversation of another thread. I don't want to make this more controversial than it always is!

hotrod180 wrote:That may indeed be the "ultimate 180", but I'd rather have a plain jane one with a standard 470 for about half the dough.
A guy who wants to go swimming doesn't have to jump in the deep end first.

Hah! Wrote my reply last night but didn't hit submit. Hotrod I am leaning your way. I think that a standard 0-470 and un-majorly-molested 180 would be a nice way to start, then just simple mods along the way. Really I just want to get the avionics right... I know most of you could care less but I enjoy them. A 430W (or 650) w/ GTX345, maybe G5, and CGR-30P I'd be a happy camper!

Just don't tell Bigrenna

Bigrenna wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:...I'd rather have a plain jane one with a standard 470....

Yeah, why would anyone want to take off shorter, climb faster, fly higher and faster, and have a better safety margin. That would be so dumb.

I am assuming when I come visit you will proceed to talk me out of everything I just said!!

"If I didn't have my 172, I'd jump on an 0-300 170 in a heart beat! Sadly it feels too much like a side/down step from my current setup, as I'm sure it wouldn't have a 430W, GTX 345, GNC 250 XL, engine monitor etc etc."

I think you are focusing on the wrong things or want a 170 just to be able to say you own a 170.

An O-300 170 will perform pretty much the same as a O-320 172 with just a little less takeoff performance which means nothing unless you frequent 1,000 foot strips at gross weight in the summer time.

As far a radios and engine monitors, the are fun to spend money on but contribute nothing to the flying of an airplane.

Bagarre wrote:"If I didn't have my 172, I'd jump on an 0-300 170 in a heart beat! Sadly it feels too much like a side/down step from my current setup, as I'm sure it wouldn't have a 430W, GTX 345, GNC 250 XL, engine monitor etc etc."

I think you are focusing on the wrong things or want a 170 just to be able to say you own a 170.

An O-300 170 will perform pretty much the same as a O-320 172 with just a little less takeoff performance which means nothing unless you frequent 1,000 foot strips at gross weight in the summer time.

As far a radios and engine monitors, the are fun to spend money on but contribute nothing to the flying of an airplane.

I am a computer-y guy and actually really enjoy the avionics side of things. I know its not for everyone, and doesn't change the flight characteristics of the plane, but I enjoy flying with them! As for 170 -> 172 comparison above, I know the 170 will perform similar hence the "side" step comment, the "down" step comment was in regards to the avionics. It's a portion of the flying I enjoy, so it would be a "down" step in that category for me. Maybe I should've clarified that above!

Bigrenna wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:...I'd rather have a plain jane one with a standard 470....

Yeah, why would anyone want to take off shorter, climb faster, fly higher and faster, and have a better safety margin. That would be so dumb. .....

I know it's the American way, after all:
if big is good, bigger is better, and too much is just about right!
But not everyone needs (or wants) (or can afford) the biggest bestest or mostest.
And IMHO simpler is often better.
YMMV

iiAtlas,

Just be patient and VERY careful in your search for that "unmolested" early 180.

The single biggest difference between many 180s and most 170s is that a very high percentage of 180s actually worked for a living, some for a lot of years. As such, they were, as the saying goes "Rode hard and put away wet".

As I noted in an earlier post, there's a LOT of junk out there in the form of 180s.

For a good one, without many mods, I'd plan on spending close to $100 K. Now, that's not to say there aren't ones out there for less, but again, take a VERY good look at logs, and condition. Hire someone who knows these airplanes to do a thorough pre-purchase inspection.

There are all sorts of "signs" that you should pay attention to. Look for those.

And, as I believe Bigrenna noted in another thread, frankly you may be better off with a plane that's been damaged and properly rebuilt, complete with logbook entries outlining everything that was done, than with a supposedly "no damage" plane that may or may not have had undocumented work done on it.

Be careful. There are perhaps more traps with buying one of these airplanes than in most. And, don't be afraid to pay a premium price IF you find a premium airplane.....cause if it really is, it'll sell fast.

MTV

mtv wrote:iiAtlas,

Just be patient and VERY careful in your search for that "unmolested" early 180.

The single biggest difference between many 180s and most 170s is that a very high percentage of 180s actually worked for a living, some for a lot of years. As such, they were, as the saying goes "Rode hard and put away wet".

As I noted in an earlier post, there's a LOT of junk out there in the form of 180s.

For a good one, without many mods, I'd plan on spending close to $100 K. Now, that's not to say there aren't ones out there for less, but again, take a VERY good look at logs, and condition. Hire someone who knows these airplanes to do a thorough pre-purchase inspection.

There are all sorts of "signs" that you should pay attention to. Look for those.

And, as I believe Bigrenna noted in another thread, frankly you may be better off with a plane that's been damaged and properly rebuilt, complete with logbook entries outlining everything that was done, than with a supposedly "no damage" plane that may or may not have had undocumented work done on it.

Be careful. There are perhaps more traps with buying one of these airplanes than in most. And, don't be afraid to pay a premium price IF you find a premium airplane.....cause if it really is, it'll sell fast.

MTV

Thank you MTV! The hunt begins...

asa wrote:https://alaskaslist.com/-3/posts/10_Transportation/59_Aircraft/546089_1955_Cessna_170B.html

Link looks dead but great website, thank you!