While you are searching for a core, I am impatiently waiting for Tom to get his props from those airscrew wizards that were going to be done two weeks ago!!
WhirlWind has a discount (Need to be a RANSCLAN member) on their 75" STOL prop but it ends on 2 Dec. I was hoping to read more reports from our esteemed Idahoian mountain flyer, to sway my decision on a new prop before the 'sale' ends. I may just bite the bullet and order it, I am happy with the 70" Whirlwind I have now but it may be going on another plane I just purchased.

WW: Prince is right on schedule, if you throw in the multiplier (double, at least). Sept. 17 he said two weeks, Nov, 26 th. I got an email saying he hadn't forgotten about me, he had the blank cut out and was "going to get it done" but didn't offer up any timetable, leaving that to mine, and yours, imagination. I have two Catto's and my Kiev to keep me flying, and from climbing the walls. So no problemo on my end. Seriously though, I'd guestimate before Christmas.

I've also been real wrapped up in installing my new carbon fiber panel, as expected it has been a #$%*&+#, but will be finished up today or tomorrow. I keep telling myself I have one of the simplest panels out there, and to quit bitching. I lit up the new Grand Rapids Mini the other day, what is going to be my new primary, and only, flight display. The smoke stayed in. Airspeed, VSI, alt., slip ball, and a few more things I think are all in there in about a 4" sq. box. The only round instruments I have now are the Hobbs meter, and the MGL V6 radio face. I'll end up with a lighter panel with mure room, lots of room, left over. I am planning on resisting the urge to put more crap in there, As an example, I even decided not to put in a glovebox, though I have the room, I already have enough in flight reachable storage for small items.Much better future access also, and more capable. Cheaper too. Just kidding about the last part, but the Mini is not too bad price wise, most if not all the others I looked at were way more tech then I needed or wanted, and more money. I'm not flying an airliner.

Mass Moment of Inertia Procedure

Courierguy, did you ever perform this Mass Moment of Inertia test on any of these props?

Av8r3400 wrote:Mass Moment of Inertia Procedure

Courierguy, did you ever perform this Mass Moment of Inertia test on any of these props?

No. I had heard about the test, and thanks for the link, but my gut tells me it's OK. If I get caught up on various projects I will do so and post any results, in the meantime I have no qualms about flying with any of these props.

I can tell you it feels softer then a 72" Warp on start up and shut down. I do have a soft start module BTW.

I also noticed that my engine seemed to start and stop much more abruptly with the Warp Drive than it does with the WhirlWind. My very first experience with the Warp was eye opeing to say the least, I don't think I have ever seen an engine stop so quickly when spinning at nearly 2,000 rpm.

Hello Big bore flyers.

I need some answers.

1) I need Waynes partners email address
2) From a reliability point of view which is better the 100hp or the 110hp. ?
3) what fuel consumption can I expect in cruise and balls to the Wall?
4) will the current rotax starter start the high compression 110hp?

Does anyone have knowledge of the Extra 95hp kit for the 912ul and how does that compare price and Performance?

I'm in South Africa and with the time difference it's quite a slow process to get answers hence using this forum.

Thanks

Poen wrote:Hello Big bore flyers.

I need some answers.

1) I need Waynes partners email address
2) From a reliability point of view which is better the 100hp or the 110hp. ?
3) what fuel consumption can I expect in cruise and balls to the Wall?
4) will the current rotax starter start the high compression 110hp?

Does anyone have knowledge of the Extra 95hp kit for the 912ul and how does that compare price and Performance?

I'm in South Africa and with the time difference it's quite a slow process to get answers hence using this forum.

Thanks

I don't have his address handy, but pretty sure if you look backwards it's posted a few times on this thread.

I went with the low comp. 105 hp version so I could use regular mogas and already had more then adequate performance. Plus maybe, as it's producing less hp, it'll last longer, then again a the hi comp is more efficient so my guess is it's wash, both are working very well to date but not enough data to state any difference. Like the 914 V the 912S... most if any problems are due to something else, not the base model of the engine, more from over heating, fuel issues, the usual things that bring airplanes down.

I burn from 3.2 to 4.5 GPH, though I rarely go balls out 'cept for brief periods/emergencies, I usually run 4900 to 5100 and am perfectly happy to get there slower but with more fuel. BUT, since you are making more power, if you insist on using all that extra power, you will burn more fuel then a stock 912S, basic fact of life. In other words, I fly the same speeds as before, mostly, and since i got the Hackman leaner also at the same time, my fuel burn actually dropped from pre Zipper.

My starter has zero issues with my low comp. probably same with the hi comp.

Not sure about the Extra deal, I think that may be a piston mod? The Zipper is all new and much better cylinders PLUS pistons, so different animal. Losing 3 lbs, cooling much better, faster throttle response (lighter pistons), losing 3 lbs., plus it's lighter

I have both the low compression 105 HP and the 95 Extra-performance pistons. I removed the 95 HP pistons to install the Zipper kit. While there is a noticable difference I doubt I woulld spend the money again. All speeds increased a small amount, engine does seem to run a little smoother, I had to increase the prop pitch about one degree to use the additional HP. My reason for upgrading was a very excessive oil usage with the 95 HP pistons. I am sure it was from improperly seated rings.
I just purchased another plane with an 80HP 912 and I am undecided what I will do with it yet as far as the engine goes. Maybe I'll send it to Hal and have him build me the 1622 Super Duper Stump Puller.
If someone has an 80 HP and wants to upgrade I would probably go with the low compression Zipper as Courierguy and I did. The additional cost to upgrade the clutch and a heavy duty starter for the 115 HP kit were the deciding factor for me since my motor is a mid 90's models that was an original 80 HP. I roughly figured it was going to cost me $7-8,000 to upgrade to the high compression kit. Also, as suggested via CG, you can burn low octane mo-gas with the low compression kit.

courierguy wrote:WW: Prince is right on schedule, if you throw in the multiplier (double, at least). Sept. 17 he said two weeks, Nov, 26 th. I got an email saying he hadn't forgotten about me, he had the blank cut out and was "going to get it done" but didn't offer up any timetable, leaving that to mine, and yours, imagination. I have two Catto's and my Kiev to keep me flying, and from climbing the walls. So no problemo on my end. Seriously though, I'd guestimate before Christmas.

...

Any updates on your prop projects? I'm waiting on call backs from both Prince and Catto for a prop on my Kitfox project.

Good timing Av8r, after patiently waiting another few months (Aug. 17th. "another couple weeks", Nov. 26 th. "as quickly as possible") while trying real hard not to come off as a whiny little bitch, just yesterday I sent an email off to Lonnie: " You know, I fly all winter". Just in case he thought I didn't for some reason. So, still waiting, what can I say? I would normally be apocalyptic by such slow service, but I don't really need it to continue to fly so I am proud as hell of my calm cool demeanor, if I can all is well. I would have driven to Ohio by now and camped out at his doorstep is I was prop less

Tom you are a patient fellow.

The 75" whirlwind is awesome, they actually stock parts AND they know how to find the Post Office which is a big deal in Alaska.

This homebuilt business has been a real eye-opener. Most of these outfits including the kit builders have zero concept of timeliness, I guess they figure it's just a toy airplane and you really don't NEED anything. Places like Matco and Whirlwind Props really shine through because they actually get shit done just like the "real" airplane suppliers do.

gb,
I definitely agree with quick delivery from Whirlwind. I ordered the 75" and It was delivered within days. When I called they said it was in stock and was out the door the next day. Haven't had a chance to use it yet though since I left MN before having the time to install it. I will also mention that it sure is an awesome looking prop with the carbon fiber pattern visible.

They do look nice. The 17.5 degree starting point was perfect for the stock 912. Not sure how much more bite with big bore.

On that subject, my Dad is headed down to MS to Ronnie Smith's Rotax school next week. Looks like they might get to assemble the big bore that we are getting built up. He doesnt use the Zipper cylinders, they are bored and lined factory cylinders. He doesnt knock the Zippers much, just prefers his way.

I change my plugs around every 5 to 600 hrs, and did so today. 180 hrs since the BB mod, I was curious to see what they looked like.... they looked great! Hal and I had checked the gap when we had them out, they were all good and are STILL good (.025) after well over 500 hrs. The color was just right, all the same, and the benefits of NOT burning ANY Av gas was evident. All of those hours were REGULAR mo gas, not premium, most of it E-10 regular no less, for what that's worth. No erosion in the sparky thing, hell they looked almost like new, but I went ahead and changed them anyway. NAPA had them, of course, I don't even remember what they cost, 2 or 3 bucks ea?

My Prince prop is only 2 weeks away I'm now told. Now that I have my new GRT MINI digital "flight deck" I need to again make a careful note of the current performance with the KIEV, as all my past records were with the old air speed indicator. These solid state ASI are consistent, but don't seem to be as sensitive as the old style "real" ASI's. All I know is I lost top speed and low speed, but I'm still fooling with it and besides I have the GPS for XC's, and I don't look at any ASI when landing or taking off anyway.

most of it E-10 regular no less, for what that's worth

A lot to me!!! Thanks for sharing your pic's. I want a plane like yours and now I want an Experimental Supercub with a R 409 (whooped up Lycoming) that can officially use ethanol too---I guess I can dream.

http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthrea ... -409-fadec

We need pics of your new panel, CG.

I like the way the GRT EFIS 2000 shows the accurate temp of the engine/hangar ambient, while all the other higher tech stuff requires a sat lock to fully boot up. Note lightened pushrod lower right for firewall mounted mechanical master switch, (I'm real proud of the 2" length of 1/4" aluminum tube used as a pull, I saved a few fractions of a gram drilling those lightening holes ) also Briggs and Scrap Iron type lawnmower throttle control lower left and right, one for controlling bypass valve to divert coolant to interior HX'r, the other for the choke. The springs are strong enough for the choke that I always felt like I was going to rip the old panel out when pulling choke, this lever setup pulls choke with no pull on the panel (farm and ranch store, 6 bucks). Note TWO heater controls, one switch for the HX fan, one pull for the muffler heat. Also the skis/wheels switches, with exclamation marks after SKIS!!!! And a mixture control, don't see that in many Rotax 912's

Then that steady glowing red light to the left of the MINI, those are skull and crossbones icons before and after "IF FLASHING", steady=good, flashing=bad. Then the pull knob above the choke, it's for the oil cooler sliding shutter, and yes I have an oil thermostat but still found in very cold WX this was needed to keep it above 145 or so. Lower and I have had a little carb ice issues on long throttled back descents. I was tempted to label this knob "CARB HEAT", because that is pretty much how I use it. I never liked the way RANS controls had 4 knobs all the same color and shape, thus the parking brake knob is modified and hopefully idiot proof. I guess I should label those breakers. That tattered quilt I throw over the windshield when parked for a dust cover I bought from an old lady in Gimli Manitoba after flying 1500 miles in my Pterodactyl ultralight to attend a big fly-in about 35 years ago, I also won $1,000.00 (third place) and got laid by TWO French speaking Canadian ladies, ultralight flyer groupies I guess, yeah, at the same time (I was younger then). I also smuggled that quilt back over the border, didn't declare it anyway. The vinyl fake carbon wrap on my down tubes combined with the Milloway tilted panel has eliminated all glare from my panel, as in reflected instruments, which I never noticed earlier until shooting videos. I traded my IFLY 700 in for a 720, and like all the other gizmo's it does a lot more then I know or utilize, fun stuff. No more N # posted on the panel in case I forget, sometimes I say 98VZ (current bird) sometimes 89VZ (first S-7), or maybe it's the other way around, close enough.

That tattered quilt I throw over the windshield when parked for a dust cover I bought from an old lady in Gimli Manitoba after flying 1500 miles in my Pterodactyl ultralight to attend a big fly-in about 35 years ago, I also won $1,000.00 (third place) and got laid by TWO French speaking Canadian ladies, ultralight flyer groupies I guess, yeah, at the same time (I was younger then). I also smuggled...

You really have done it all!

I'll be interested to see how you like that MGL radio. I can't get mine to work. Matt gave me some instructions to try. I think my plane is just too loud for it (swiss muffler?).

So, Gimli Manitoba fly-in this year for old time's sake?

This is going behind my Zipper Big Bore conversion. Hal just threw it on a truck this morning, so I better get crackin.

Half Panel:
Here's that wacky panel I wanted to show you Mr. MénageCourier. There will be an internal tray on the left side. You can keep your pizza there and camera and coffee.

Oh, how the tables have turned. I'm going to put some of your lightening holes in the radio stack support. There will still be a slot for a transponder but I sold my old one for $25 on eBay! Win Win!


I scrapped the canvas bag and am going with floorboards. It's going to have a hump like an old Monte Carlo for the drive shaft/push pull tube.
This is the balsa core for the carbon fiber(s).


I guess it has nothing to do with this, but I'm on a roll.
I'm going to try to use this as a mold for carbon bungee shrouds.

Yesterday the FEDEX hero dropped off my new second gen Prince 78 x 46 prop, finally. While waiting what seemed, and was, months, I had the thought it MUST be something special to take so long to get one! I've put 6 hrs on it so far and it would seem to be worth my wait, I really like it.

I got out the digital fish scale, first weighing a similar sized CATTO prototype 912S prop, 8lbs 3 ozs. Then the KIEV, generally regarded as the lightest prop out there, a shade less then 8 lbs. Then the Prince, drumroll please: 4 lbs 12 ozs. While my CG is fine, anytime I can drop the total weight, ozs. even, I jump on it, losing POUNDS while gaining performance is a frigging no brainer. Note the perfectly straight trailing edge, something I have never seen or at least noticed on any other prop.

Upon initial startup, the difference was immediately noticeable, a whole different sound. As usual I took off my sloped strip at a reduced throttle setting, less noise plus it seems easier on the engine. I take full advantage of the grade I have and just lift off into level flight, fly a few minutes, then start climbing if I'm heading north anyway like I was today. So, once at full throttle, I headed south a couple miles and then hung a left, pointing me right at the lowest point in the range behind my place, the lowest point aimed towards the cafe in Afton anyway. I have always had to circle to clear this ridge, just a couple weeks ago it took about 4 or 5 climbing circles to clear it. This morning I aimed right at it and cleared the sucker by a 150' with NO circling! This new prop was getting real interesting. Here's a shot of the pass, looking back at it.

One thing I did notice, it is not as smooth as a smaller three blade taking smaller bites, this is taking big bites and it is just part of the price of the increased power of the larger dia. two blader. I quickly got used to it, sort of like riding a Harley, all part of the experience. The first test was straight and level at 75 inc., 4880 RPM at 8500', the Kiev was turning 5200 at the same speed. Then I cruise climbed at 73 mph (I really like the digital MINI MFD, and have quickly gotten used to it, even doing a little almost soaring using the VSI as a variometer) and 5100 RPM and about 240 FPM, up to 10K. Then I went to WOT and 65 to 68 mph, and was rewarded with a solid and sustained 650 FPM. Then at 12K, it was still pulling me skywards at 550 FPM. Here's a screen shot of what will be my long range hi alt cruise configuration, note that I am using the HackMan Leaner, without the fuel burn was 4 to 4.1 GPH.


Note that my EIS is setup like this: Upper on left going right is RPM's, fuel press., and EGT. Lower going right is oil T & P, fuel burn, CHT.