hotrod180 wrote:The 850 STC for 180's which I have also specified 6 ply, no brand names though.
So technically the Desser 4-ply smoothies aren't a legal option for me.

What STC? Kenmore doesn't specify.

http://www.kenmoreairharbor.com/uploads ... nw_ref.pdf

hotrod180 wrote:The 850 STC for 180's which I have also specified 6 ply, no brand names though.
So technically the Desser 4-ply smoothies aren't a legal option for me.

This is NOT true. The Kenmore STC does not call out explicitly for a ply. The last page lists "examples" of tires and their weights, but there is no note for which tire to use other than the size, 8.5x6. You MAY use the Kenmore STC for the 4ply.

The fact that you guys are using this tire on a C180 makes me feel better. The weight rating is pretty low and you guys are much heavier than me

Just because one “can” doesn’t always mean one “should.” LOL

Just a reminder, the weight rating is per tire.

Tim

You obviously haven't seen me land

aftCG wrote:You obviously haven't seen me land

Haha!
I was just out flying on a set of these and plopped it down pretty hard in the wind. Would have been a bone jarring landing on stock tires. I was really blown away when my pax commented on what a great landing and how smooth it was...I don't think she even noticed the bounce or heard me cussing myself under my breath. I like the tires, although the do make taxiing in a crosswind a bit more of a challenge.

CFOT wrote:...I don't think she even noticed the bounce or heard me cussing myself under my breath. .....

I had to laugh at this one.
It reminded me of once, when I was pretty low time in my first taildragger (C170).
I was on final and a crosswindy gust blew me off centerline, or something....
Anyway, I muttered "oh shit".
My passenger, who was pretty nervous about flying anyway, heard that & it got him pretty shook up.
After that, I decided that turning the intercom to "isolate" when on final was a pretty good idea.

Bigrenna wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:The 850 STC for 180's which I have also specified 6 ply, no brand names though.
So technically the Desser 4-ply smoothies aren't a legal option for me.

This is NOT true. The Kenmore STC does not call out explicitly for a ply. The last page lists "examples" of tires and their weights, but there is no note for which tire to use other than the size, 8.5x6. You MAY use the Kenmore STC for the 4ply.

Oh but it IS true.
I don't have the Kenmore STC.
Mine is from North Sound Aviation.
STC # SA1601NM.
"Installation of 8.50x6 6 ply aircraft tires in accordance with North Sound Aviation Drawing No. 180-102."

aftCG wrote:I've got a question about these tires and don't want to start a new thread.

I would like to put a set of these on my 7ECA Citabria. The TCDS does not show 850x6 tires on the approved list but there is an STC (SA3019WE) which allows "8.50 x 6.00 4-ply rated, Type III aircraft tires".

The Desser tires would appear to be applicable if they are "type III" but I can't find clear definition of what that means. I found reference that it indicates a tire which is fat by comparison to it's wheel width, which seems to imply a balloon type tire but that's all I know so far.

The STC indicates the owner waives rights to compensation, so I'm hoping this all comes together easily.

Type III is indicated by the size designation. According to this chart, 8.50-6 would reference a Type III tire, so you should be good.

CFOT wrote:

aftCG wrote:I've got a question about these tires and don't want to start a new thread.

I would like to put a set of these on my 7ECA Citabria. The TCDS does not show 850x6 tires on the approved list but there is an STC (SA3019WE) which allows "8.50 x 6.00 4-ply rated, Type III aircraft tires".

The Desser tires would appear to be applicable if they are "type III" but I can't find clear definition of what that means. I found reference that it indicates a tire which is fat by comparison to it's wheel width, which seems to imply a balloon type tire but that's all I know so far.

The STC indicates the owner waives rights to compensation, so I'm hoping this all comes together easily.

Type III is indicated by the size designation. According to this chart, 8.50-6 would reference a Type III tire, so you should be good.

Yup, that's right.

Does one need an STC to put the Desser 8:50 x 6 smoothies on a C170B?

BirdyinBOI wrote:Does one need an STC to put the Desser 8:50 x 6 smoothies on a C170B?

corrected

For the 170, I'd use the Atlee Letter, although "approved" installation is a matter of debate.

Some just do it. Some use the Alaska tire worksheet along with prior field approvals as a basis for their own FA. Some use the blanket letter by FA Dodge as basis, although it calls out approval for 6 ply not 4 ply (search the site here for threads) Some use (For the 180/185) the Kenmore STC (several folks incorrectly understand the STC to only refer to 6 ply tires because the last page calls out an example tire weights where they talk about 6 ply. Their STC is for 8.5x6 in general and not ply.

They are not on the type cert, so you cant install w/out an approved basis. The debate is on what is considered "approved." Consult your IA for his/her opinion on all of this as ultimately its going to come down to whoever is signing it off.

I just installed a set on a customer bird and used the Kenmore STC. I am doing the same with my own wagon. Your 170 is light, so no worries, but for others, keep in mind that the load limit is only 1600lbs each tire, so heavier birds, although if deemed legal, may or may not be pushing their luck.

Bigrenna wrote:

BirdyinBOI wrote:Does one need an STC to put the Desser 8:50 x 6 smoothies on a C170B?

I would answer yes, but this is a matter of debate.

Some just do it. Some use the Alaska tire worksheet along with prior field approvals as a basis for their own FA. Some use the blanket letter by FA Dodge as basis, although it calls out approval for 6 ply not 4 ply (search the site here for threads) Some use the Kenmore STC (several folks incorrectly understand the STC to only refer to 6 ply tires because the last page calls out an example tire weights where they talk about 6 ply. Their STC is for 8.5x6 in general and not ply.

They are not on the type cert, so you cant install w/out an approved basis. The debate is on what is considered "approved." Consult your IA for his/her opinion on all of this as ultimately its going to come down to whoever is signing it off.

I just installed a set on a customer bird and used the Kenmore STC. I am doing the same with my own wagon. Your 170 is light, so no worries, but for others, keep in mind that the load limit is only 1600lbs each tire, so heavier birds, although if deemed legal, may or may not be pushing their luck.

Does the Kenmore STC include the 170, or just the 180/185? I used a field approval on my 170, long before there were any STCs. According to the Feds, they arent' supposed to issue a field approval if an STC exists for that specific installation.....

MTV

mtv wrote:
Does the Kenmore STC include the 170, or just the 180/185? I used a field approval on my 170, long before there were any STCs. According to the Feds, they arent' supposed to issue a field approval if an STC exists for that specific installation.....

MTV

Your right Mike... STC SA361NW is for the 180/185 only.

http://www.kenmoreairharbor.com/uploads/9/6/8/3/9683162/sa361nw_ref.pdf

Do you guys think one should have double puck brakes when running the Desser 8:50x6 smoothies or would it just be overkill?

BirdyinBOI wrote:Do you guys think one should have double puck brakes when running the Desser 8:50x6 smoothies or would it just be overkill?

On a J3 or a 206?

Hah! On a C170B...

aftCG- I went through a similar struggle when trying to do the same thing to my Decathlon and ended up going right to the factory with the question. They have been very helpful and I'm glad I did. Here's what the ACA engineer says:

"There are two options for installation of the 8.50x6 tires. The first option is to keep wheels, brakes, and axles you have - ACA drawings 7-1307 and AC-1511 (if you have aluminum gear use drawing 7-1559). The second option is to install wheels, double puck brakes, and axles used for the Scout - ACA drawing 4-2042.

Both drawings are approved for the 8KCAB. With drawing 7-1307 a logbook entry and updated weight and balance would be sufficient. If you are adding the 4-2042 wheels and brakes - you should fill out a 337 documenting installation to the approved drawing. In both instances you should have the drawing for future reference."

Jody Bradt
ACA Engineer

I would assume if the Decathlon is supported than the Citabria definitely would be. The drawing are $50/each from ACA.
-Shackle

BirdyinBOI wrote:Hah! On a C170B...

I had 26” Goodyear’s on my Pacer with a 2k gross and was never wanting for more brake with single pucks. Just a data point for you.

You are probably getting close to finding tangible benefits with the doubles, but other folks probably have a better idea.