Tom,

Pretty good summary. One little point is that, as I've said many times here--you cannot bond a plastic can to an airplane. It is like trying to use the wood siding or frame of your house as your ground connector to your breaker panel.

Dang, Actually, that is a really good analogy..

Oh, yeah, and I can't see any particular benefit of the Sceptre cans over the hardware store variety, for most purposes, frankly. Might be a little stronger, but I try not to drive over gas cans, so who cares?

qmdv,

I gained a bit of insight into electron movement at one point in my career. In fact, I've been thoroughly zapped a couple of times, both by live circuits and by "de-energized" circuits.

Both hurt.

MTV

I put my plastic can on the ground, and put my left hand on the jury strut bolts and rub the outside of the can with my right hand. Put the can up on the wing, and do the same thing, using the tank cover screws as my ground. I'm pretty confident that that takes care of the outside of the can, but what about the inside? If there really was a problem, then there would be a history of blow-ups....at least from some cause...so, it would behoove us to look at the record, assuming there is one that is accessable...??

Somewhere I have a picture of a Jet Ranger toasted by static. I'll look.

Remember that, since these would not be an "operational", ie in motion accident, the NTSB and FAA records won't show them, unless they feel this is a "significant problem" worthy of further investigation.

It does not happen often.

As noted, in twenty years in Fairbanks, I know if three in that neighborhood. Planes were all burned to ground. Pilots hurt in two of those.

MTV

I read about the cafe modification of a plastic gas can, and it looks extraordinarily dangerous to me......if the connection between the outside and inside fails open, you have made yourself a high voltage capacitor with the spark gap in the neck of the can....I'm starting to think that nothing needs to be done to a plastic can, just discharge the outside surface of charges and don't pour it into the air with the stream going any distance outside a tank ....like into a plastic bucket...where air can make a reactive mixture...

Does anyone know the military part spec MIL-C-53109? After quite a bit of research on the 'net there is some limited indication (mentioned once or twice on some 4x4 off-road racing websites) that the plastic "Jerry Cans" made to this spec (by Scepter and others) may have anti-static properties. One part of the spec appears to allow the use of the container as a vehicle fuel tank. I haven't been able to find the full spec except by purchase which I'm not inclined to do just yet.

I know the spec contains limits on crush resistance etc. which isn't so important but perhaps there are also anti-static properties called out.

Appears that MIL-C-53109 mentioned in my earlier post was superceded by another spec A-A-59592 NOT 1 that can be found by searching at www.assistdocs.com but it has an interesting item in it. In the material description it states that "Materials shall be resistant to tall fluids as specified and be non-corrosive and non-sparking". This would sorta lead you to believe that it has anti-static properties.

"non sparking" generally means that the materials don't strike a spark from friction, like flint and steel....copper, bronze, and aluminum are safe materials for friction sparking , but not from static....

How about a setup like this? http://offroadrecovery.com/product/008D Could be pressurized with a manual or electric tire pump depending on the situation/location. Leave the can on the ground away from things and bond the nozzle to the plane as normal. Some hassle with pressurization but no funnel, no lifting, no spilling etc. Not sure how many pressurization cycles would be needed to empty the tank if using a manual pump. More than one or two would make it impractical or make sure you always have a passenger. Also don't know if a 5 PSI differential would pump the fuel to the top of a high-wing a/c.

gang,
i have used a home made fuel hose/pump as shown for sale in the web sight. we used a 15 gal plastic drum and a foot power bicycle pump to go from the back of the ac or setting on the float to the wing of c206, maule or stinson. it works real well.
rog pfeifer

Water with a 10 ft head makes about 4.3 psi. A high wing is about 6 feet. So take 60 % of the 4.3 to get the pressure in water. Now fuel is about 75% the weight of water.

4.3 x .6 = 2.58. 2.58 x .75 = 1.935.

Does not take much pressure to get the fuel from the ground to the top of a high wing. Now an anfib is a different story.

Tim

And, where is the bonding wire for that hose?

Would need to talk to the vendor and see if the hose is static-dissipative (the hose on the super siphon is so it's possible). If it's not replace it with some that is or cover it with metal sleeving (see it at www.cableorganizer.com). Then provide a bonding wire back at the tank end. Could be nothing more than a hose clamp around the hose barb at the tank end that you could attach an alligator clip equiped bonding wire too.

A lot of "new"outboard motors come with "plastic gas cans" which slip and slide all over the place. Its hard for me to imagine in this tort economy that these manufactures are that careless....Garv

Hey Guys if you have not seen this video it explains a lot about static electricity. Worth watching. Bill

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8801&hl=en

PATRICK GARVEY wrote:A lot of "new"outboard motors come with "plastic gas cans" which slip and slide all over the place. Its hard for me to imagine in this tort economy that these manufactures are that careless....Garv

It's easier to get away with this in a marine environment as everything is sitting in contact with a nice ground. Not to mention a marine environment is by definition higher humidity and thus much more difficult to build static charge in. More difficult when an airplane has big insulators between the fuselage and the dirt and thus a big capacitor to build lots of charge on. Not to mention that prior to landing it may have come though rain, dust, etc. that assisted in the building of additional charge. Have talked to a couple of the manufacturers of fuel containers for a marine environment and they do not recommend use of their product in an aviation environment for this reason.

Different fuel too.

Here is something from Aircraft Spruce that I hadn't seen before. The Goatthroat fuel pump.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/p ... y&kw=Flash

Does anyone have any experience using these or have comments upon their use or level of safety? Thanks!
Don

Here is something from Aircraft Spruce that I hadn't seen before. The Goatthroat fuel pump.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/p ... y&kw=Flash

Does anyone have any experience using these or have comments upon their use or level of safety? Thanks!
Don Rolling Eyes

Problem with the pressurized container anything open it up between the dispensing valve and the pressurized container and you have an uncontrollable mess. Also when the canister empties you have a very explosive mist coming out.

the goatthroat loks kinda like a keg pump. I might get confused and either pour myself a glass of gas, or put beer in my plane


Dane

Found this on the CAFE site looking at how to drag another airplane by the nose. Thought it to be interesting....the metal welding rod in the funnel and inside the plastic fuel can, grounded to the aircraft.
http://cafefoundation.org/pdf/Fuel%20Ha ... Safety.pdf